Raising the bar: Leetism standards and how it affects everyone else

[Chiraisu]

From the moment of the game's re-release, the hardcore community began the rush to get 50. Or in some cases were already 50, capable of doing many things in end game content to get a leg up on the "competition" (?).

However, as many more people achieved 50 and began the grind of tomestones. I thought to myself as I watched the community shift. Like a plague that spread overnight it seemed.

What I talk about is the requirements party starters place on who is eligible to join their group. At first, some of it made sense. Like someone wanting to speed run an AK, needing the people already knowledgeable about the bosses rotations and mechanics. Since it was mostly only for AK, at that time, it was fine.

The problem really arises from how it [the community] continues to evolve into an even heavier fit of elitism. It spread to primals, needing to know the fight first hand before even being considered to join. Definitive lack of training runs, gear requirements (for garuda and titan is understandable).

Then, as many feared. Once you couldn't run past every mob in AK anymore, people once again tried desperately to find a path of least resistance in another dungeon for quick tomestones. Easiest next bet was Castrum. While people were concerned this would affect people who were new, doing it for story, I had thought to myself that there could be no way someone was so hardcore as to exclude new players from this very easy dungeon run. I was wrong.

Within the later weeks, as more and more people have been completing their sets of dark light gear and achieving their relics. Some of these party starters have once again risen the bar, placing things like CM under a "Don't join if you're new, go solo queue or do it with your FC"

While this is a good answer. Why in the world would someone need to get pigeon holed into such methods on such a mindlessly easy dungeon. It doesn't make sense, but whatever. So then you got the speed runners of the dungeon, then you have the ones left out who need to solo queue for it. But then, it doesn't really end there.

Even when I was still stuck on garuda, I heard people who had just gotten to Titan shouting for people who were only experienced in the fight. These people themselves had only just gotten here, and most of the population of the server wasn't even there yet, or just getting there. You can't become experienced in something if you are excluded for not having experience. Youtube videos help, but only to a certain extent.

Then again. Today I was in revenant's toll and I had seen a couple of shouts from certain people making parties for a CM run. They were demanding you have relic to join. You honestly needed a relic to join a story mission that you need to complete to even start a relic quest. The sheer backwards retardation of such a notion was so shocking that I refused to accept it and pass it off as a joke. While I have a relic, and near full dark light gear, I had actually refused to join something so ignorant. It was mind boggling that, here we are, little over a month in the game and hardcore players have already trashed it.

Part of the reason I ended up leaving FFXI way back when, was due to the same kind of player attitude that I'm seeing replayed in 14. I really hope it goes away, cause I'm not going to spend time in a game I love with players that ruin it for everyone else.

[BlossomRose]

There is nothing wrong with people deciding to make speed run groups for people who are disgustingly overgeared and can complete the content faster.

There will be tons and tons of people to make parties with who don't have their relic, if you want to make your own group.

A bunch of relic dudes doing CM doesn't hurt you or affect you; just run it like you normally would and don't bother with their group.

While it's true it's sad how the end-game has turned into a speed grind, that's kind of SE's fault for making it necessary to gear up quickly. If they'd implemented other methods to get tomestones that have nothing to do with completing dungeons quickly, or made it impossible to speed run, then things would be a bit different.

[MXMoondoggie]

It won't go away or magically change because this is the way MMO's are. It's not just in this game. People naturally seek others who know how to do things. Success breeds success and winners like to play with other winners to win more. While i agree it does get kind of dumb when some newbie is demanding experienced members to carry them i'm not going to judge anyone who wants to breeze through a dungeon with other like minded players who can go through the motions with their eyes closed and have the gear to do it quickly.

For primal Hard Mode fights people will naturally want people who know the fight because it gives you a huge advantage. You need to know everyone will know where to be and when. Training runs are great if everyone is expecting that up front.

[TirionCrey]

Nobody that demands Relics for CM or Praetorium thinks they are needed. They demand them, cause it makes it faster and that's all people care about right now. They done it so many times...they want to cut the time invested to a minimum, hence demanding people to have Relics.

One thing you got extremely wrong though is...this has literally nothing to do with the hardcore community. My Fc is hardcore...and most of our FC reached Coil in a matter of 1 week after release...most of us had all 50s, many had their Relics back from 1.0...nobody in our FC ever thought of demanding Relics or whatever for Speedruns...

It's the "new players" that all come up with this shit. Just 2 weeks ago nobody ever bothered to shout for SRs with Relics as a pre-req...now you see them all over the place...the hardcore peolpe were SRing AK, CM and Praetorium weeks ago...not now...so don't generalize "hardcore" people with what you see there. The real hardcore people all have their FCs and run everything among their FC members...90% don't even bother shouting for anything. It's the new 50s that just got their first, or second relic done (maybe even paying for the Titan kill and I know what I'm talking about...my FC sells 6-10 Titan Runs a DAY...) that are now demanding this stuff...not the people who had their 50s and their relics done for 4 weeks...or did you see anyone shout for Relic AK, Praetorium Runs 3-4 weeks ago??? Cuase that's when the hardcore people started it. What you see now is not the hardcore people...it's the casuals and semi hardcore, who just got to that point in the game.

[PiedPiper]

Tirion makes a good point. "Hardcore" and "semi-hardcore" fcs and players have little to no interest in playing with randoms. They/we've worked hard to build self-sustaining communities to run content with, so when the need arises to go grind cm or preat, its done internally.

That said, when you have relic and your'e working on gearing up your second or third job and you're staring down the barrel of 60ish cm runs to get full DL and relic for a class... you may find yourself wishing everyone in your group had relic and dl to shave those minutes off.

It has much less to do with community leetism and much more to do with the fact that the method to get the gear for real endgame (coil) is to do 60 runs of a story dungeon :/ Those players who want to get into coil have no choice but to grind entry level 50 dungeons.

[Elemia]

The main reason I've seen people tend to ask for relic weapons for CM runs is they are doing a 1 tank 1 healer party, so need well-geared dps so things don't get overwhelming

[Ariyn]

This has nothing to do with the "hardcore" community. Actually it's quite the opposite.

Our FC is pretty hardcore, as such we tend to make our own groups within the FC and maybe pug 1 person for runs if we don't have the people online. This is because we want to get things done in a faster more efficient manner. The same usually applies to those hardcore people. If they want quick runs they will form their own groups. These problems are all starting from the ones who have been failing over and over and want to try and stack groups for things in hopes of being carried or at least getting it down. Hell I saw one guy requiring relics and full DL for titan but he still had AF gear on.

This does happen in every MMO now a days but it's really not that hard to counter. Just form your own groups and try not to rely on pugs. I mean this is an MMO which is a social game. Go out and make some friends that you can run with. In the long run this method is far better then counting on a pug group

[BlossomRose]

I'd like to point out that being an elitist ABOUT elitists isn't much better.

People are fully within their right to play with similar people. If people who worked hard to get all their gear and their relic want to play with similar people, that's their right, and you have no right to criticize or condemn that decision.

Just as they have no right to criticize or condemn your decision not to play with them.

In the end, though, those people aren't as bad off as you think. Most of the people with full DL (and above) gear, who also have their relic, are going to be in some hundred-members FCs and Linkshells. I, personally, am in two Linkshells with ~100 people, and my FC goes up to about 150 last I checked.

I have more ties to my server's community than most people can claim to have, and almost everyone I know now has their relic, and mostly wants to do speed runs with similar people.

Blame SE for setting the game up like this, not the players.

[ReaperDx]

Pretty much what most people are saying, if you want to queue up and experience the story then do it through the DF. Also with the wealth of information online and even YouTube videos, there's no excuse to step into a dungeon completely unprepared. Granted, its not a huge deal but again, don't go with speed run groups or people trying to farm HM Primals if you don't know what you're doing or don't have the gear they're asking for.

I practiced Ifrit, Garuda and Titan HM through the DF to get experience before joining farm groups or doing it with an FC. I watched YouTube videos how to tank AK, CM and Praetorium speed runs before joining speed run groups. Anytime I queued for any of those above instances in the DF, I was always patient and let newbies watch cutscenes, explain fights, etc without getting angry.

Point is, if you want to experience the story, roll with friends or queue in the DF; if you want to speed run or farm kills, then gear yourself up and do research. On the flipside, people who queue in the DF without a set group need to be patient with people and help them out and let them enjoy the story.

[Foullacy]

Then again. Today I was in revenant's toll and I had seen a couple of shouts from certain people making parties for a CM run. They were demanding you have relic to join. You honestly needed a relic to join a story mission that you need to complete to even start a relic quest. The sheer backwards retardation of such a notion was so shocking that I refused to accept it and pass it off as a joke. While I have a relic, and near full dark light gear, I had actually refused to join something so ignorant. It was mind boggling that, here we are, little over a month in the game and hardcore players have already trashed it.

Part of the reason I ended up leaving FFXI way back when, was due to the same kind of player attitude that I'm seeing replayed in 14. I really hope it goes away, cause I'm not going to spend time in a game I love with players that ruin it for everyone else.

I am extremely annoyed and disgusted with attitude like yours. What part of saving time or speeding through arbitrary content is elitist? I wanted to get full Darklight on my Dragoon, so I've done CM speed runs on my BLM, taking relic geared players only, with one healer and one tank. Most runs are done within twenty one minutes. I'm sorry that you feel because CM is a "story" dungeon that people should bring you, this is a MMO, if you can't find yourself among friends, maybe you should rethink where your time investment is going. There is nothing elitist about wanting to finish something quicker.

I'm happy being an "elitist prick" over a "whiny child" that feels some false sense of entitlement for mediocrity.