[suggestion] Sidequests and Rewards

[Abriael]

I personally appreciated a lot the introduction of sidequests in Final Fantasy XIV. While this first batch didn't include cutscenes (after all they are SIDE-quests ), the writing was nice and the flavor was spot-on.

There is only a rather big problem I see with the Sidequest system, and that's rewards.

At the moment a sidequests gives absolutely no experience and skill points. Not only, even the sidequest-related mobs are absolutely deprieved of any reward. Personally I think that this isn't really appropriate.

I understand and appreciate the value of flavor and lore, but every action in a MMORPG should contribute to character progression, and honestly the items received from sidequests (that can be all cheaply bought at the market wards in 5 minutes flat), don't feel like an appropriate reward for the time spent during the quest, nor contribute in any sizable way to character progression.

When people vocally asked for the introduction of more quests in Final Fantasy XIV, I can pretty much guarantee that 99% of them meant quests as a viable way for leveling up their character, like in 99% of the MMORPG out there (experience rewards for quests is an undeniable and almost ancient staple of the MMORPG genre, and even of offline RPGs), as an at least partial alternative to grinding and levequests (that at the moment feel kinda like directed grinding anyway).

I thought about why the development team chose to deprieve sidequest-related monsters of any kind of reward and loot, and Icame to the conclusion (please correct me if I'm wrong), that their position and the fact that they're all bunched up would make them an excessively easy farming target for grinding individuals and parties that are not involved in the sidequest at all.

I understand that point of view, but I honestly disagree with the results, as I feel that sidequests should definitely award at the very least as many skill points and experience as a comparable guildleve that takes roughly the same time to be completed. Otherwise people will see most sidequests as useless (and that's the general reaction I've seen on most forums) and skip them entirely, completely wasting their implementation.
After all, as I said, the awarding of experience for quests is a classic in MMORPG gameplay, and people have come to expect it, IMHO with reason, as they take time to be completed, and time should come with a sizable character progression reward.
The fact that sidequests aren't repeatable means that the impact of that experience/skill points award won't negatively influence the progression balance.

So I came out with a few (hopefully easy to implement) solutions that should allow the team to introduce experience/skill rewards without encurring in the problem of uninvolved people farming the sidequests mobs.

1: leave the mobs as they are, but award a sizable amount of experience/Skill points at the end of the quests, alongside the item. Again, that amount should be comparable to what is earned during a levequest of comparable time.
2: Let the mobs award experience/skill/loot exactly as levequest mobs do (pretty much in the same amount, even better, IMHO, the same amount of when guardian favor is active), and make them visible (and aggressive, when it's the case) only to characters involved in their specific quest, pretty much like levequest monsters.
3: Same as above, but let the mobs give experience/skill/loot only to characters involved in their specific quest. That way they would still be useless as farming mobs.
4: A combination of the above (which for me would be the best solution), letting character earn experience/skill both when killing the mobs, and on top of it, a further amount upon completion.

Again, those are just my personal suggestion, based on the fact that, at least before the endgame, time invested should always equal to character progression.
As a side note, I would add experience/skill rewards upon completion to all quests, including story quests and levequests. It definitely won't hurt, and it would add to the sense of accomplishment given by those activities.

[bobbygunz]

i agree, but more then the items you have to understand these quests need to be extreamly hard,
Waking the Beast in FF11 is a great example you needed to kill 8 super hard avatars and then a Evil Carbuncle.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Waking_the_Beast

Devolpers, put in crazy content like this and we will love you for it.

Just look at end game quests in FF11 and copy/Tweek them, if its not broken dont fix it.

[Xatsh]

I disagree with doing the sp/xp thing like that. It is what destroys the community in games.

The rewards need to be much better and a little reward of sp/xp like 500-1000sp I can see. but to give like 2.5k-6ksp for a quest would turn this into a solo only mmo.

I think quest should be part of character progression that I completely agree with but not the leveling part of progression. Have quest unlock ones with better rewards, unlock new areas, unlock new abilities, unlock a variety of things.

But making it where people can purely level up on quest would be a disastrous effect to everyone who wants to party before endgame. While the ability part will still be there with the whole playerbase soloing quest it would pretty much end any chance of grouping at that point simply because there would not be enough people to do it.

[Abriael]

The rewards need to be much better and a little reward of sp/xp like 500-1000sp I can see. but to give like 2.5k-6ksp for a quest would turn this into a solo only mmo.

Grouping doesn't need to be forced. It needs to be viable and rewarding. That's how you get people to group, not by making solo activities unrewarding.

Also, with the current pace, even in several years, giving quests decent XP/SP rewards will never allow people to level to cap with only sidequests. There simply won't be nearly enough of them.

To put things in perspective, a game that's structured for questing-only leveling up has an average of 600-800 quests from level 1 to cap. It'll be several years before FFXIV gets to that level.

[PeppinoTuna]

i agree, but more then the items you have to understand these quests need to be extreamly hard,
Waking the Beast in FF11 is a great example you needed to kill 8 super hard avatars and then a Evil Carbuncle.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Waking_the_Beast

Devolpers, put in crazy content like this and we will love you for it.

Just look at end game quests in FF11 and copy/Tweek them, if its not broken dont fix it.

I want to play FFXIV, not FFXI.

[PM1337]

I want to play FFXIV, not FFXI.

Agreed I am tired of people wanting this to be FFXI-2. This is not a sequel but a stand alone installment. I want FFXIV to be an new and enjoyable experience not a rehash of XI. I loved FFXI but I am ready for something new!

[kAhn360]

Grouping doesn't need to be forced. It needs to be viable and rewarding. That's how you get people to group, not by making solo activities unrewarding.

Also, with the current pace, even in several years, giving quests decent XP/SP rewards will never allow people to level to cap with only sidequests. There simply won't be nearly enough of them.

To put things in perspective, a game that's structured for questing-only leveling up has an average of 600-800 quests from level 1 to cap. It'll be several years before FFXIV gets to that level.

Very well said. Sorry guys... Gotta rant a bit. At this point and time, an with how the questing has been implemented there really is absolutely no real reason to do any of these quests. Rewards are a joke. The fact that on top of not earning ANY experience/skill ups AT ALL as final reward or for even going out an killing required mobs is ridiculous. I do not understand how anyone on the Dev team thought completely cutting off EXP an Skill ups was a good idea. It's beyond me. The quests are absolutely nothing but glorified time sinks sat behind pretty graphics. No inclining of player progression at all. Wastes of time. Plain an simple.

I was so excited when I first heard bout side quests being put in thinking "Yes, they are finally adding some content to this barren game." Then read release notes was confused an disappointed with the decisions they made with these quests, but still logged on to try some out an left feeling nothing but let down ONCE AGAIN. I soon after just logged off an decided well, i guess I'll be staying logged off with my fingers cross for next update like i have been doing.

Coming from playing the greatness that is FFXI for 5 years, an wanting to experience something new.. I just don't understand how they could have dropped the ball this badly an continue to do so. Just makes no sense to me. Things behind the scenes are getting where they need to be like bug fixes, tweaking UI, an overall game playing better but STILL no real content. Can you imagine if this wasn't free to play? Honestly.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

Grouping doesn't need to be forced. It needs to be viable and rewarding. That's how you get people to group, not by making solo activities unrewarding.

Also, with the current pace, even in several years, giving quests decent XP/SP rewards will never allow people to level to cap with only sidequests. There simply won't be nearly enough of them.

To put things in perspective, a game that's structured for questing-only leveling up has an average of 600-800 quests from level 1 to cap. It'll be several years before FFXIV gets to that level.

Grouping should't be forced, but this this is a SOCIAL game. Put a huge sp/exp reward on sidequest and you'll see an occidental mmorpg in oriental shape.And isn't really i looking for.
Party playing should still be the main focus, while manteining a fair solo component. Maybe sidequest need a LITTLE exp reward, but not really meant an exping mode

[Abriael]

Grouping should't be forced, but this this is a SOCIAL game. Put a huge sp/exp reward on sidequest and you'll see an occidental mmorpg in oriental shape.And isn't really i looking for.
Party playing should still be the main focus, while manteining a fair solo component. Maybe sidequest need a LITTLE exp reward, but not really meant an exping mode

Sorry, but this is not what we've been promised/publicized since the start. Solo play has always been promised to be fully supported into this game.
I understand that you enjoy party play, and I do as well when I'm able to dedicate myself to it. But you won't get people to play with you more willingly by forcing them and making different playstyles less viable/rewarding.

All playstyles need to be rewarding. This may be a social game, but in every society there are people that are more or less socially oriented.

No one asks for "HUGE" rewards, but there needs to be BALANCED rewards, and BALANCED definitely doesn't mean "LITTLE". Time investment needs to be rewarded, whether it's solo or grouped.

Not everyone has the chance to play for several hours on end (which is required by group play) or even more for several hours uninterrupted. I have and many others have, during our days, several timeframes in which we can't dedicate full and uninterrupted attention to the game. During those timeframes we can simply play solo and go afk when needed. We can't, obviously, be in a group when we have to go afk every 20-30 minutes. It'd be rude and obnoxious.

Turning those timeframes in wasted and unrewarding time isn't exactly the best way to promote group play.
To promote group play, you make group play fun and rewarding. You don't make solo play unfun and unrewarding.

To be honest demanding that a developer caters only to your playstyle because you're afraid that other players may prefer another playstyle is the perfect way to condemn the game to a premature demise.

@kAhn360: your memories of FFXI may be a bit blurry, considering that most quests there were exactly like the sidequests here. No or little XP rewards, no cutscenes. The quests that gave decent rewards and had cutscenes were a minority. I honestly expected them to make sidequests exactly like this, because that's how they were in FFXI. Though, it's time for the system to evolve

[yukikaze_yanagi]

Sure thing, but right now everybody do leves prior to grind party because have a better exp/hour reward, and with money attached.I don't feel right give the players another easy method to exp, but if it'll turn to be a fair one, would be fine