Conjurer & White Mage Abilities and Spells Feedback

[Keileia]

There are periods in some of the fights where say, you've got mana to spare and your main target isnt taking any damage, but you KNOW that a huge boss nuke is coming up. When I mean buffer, i'll use an extreme situation to demonstrate it.

Hypothetical situation, but i can see it coming in hard fight:

Tank has 3000 hp. Boss does a move that hits for 3000. No other damage coming. (e,g phase change). Therefore you're full on mana. You know it's coming in 10 seconds. What to do :< cure wont help. Answer: Stoneskin.

Here's another example. Boss has move called "flurry" when he does series of multiple hits very fast. Cast time (say) 5 seconds. Tank will die in period of 2 seconds from full hp. But wait... :< cast time of cure is 2.5... how do I save the tank? You've a choice of 4 things: speed up cast using presence of mind, get instant cast (THM skill) use benediction at that moment, or... STONESKIN buying you time to heal. (Other options include tank cooldown and limit break but here is the healer forum).

[Maldalewyn]

Stoneskin does indeed have it's uses, but it's still only a shadow of what it once was. It fills a very minor role that, quite frankly, you can go throughout entire dungeons without ever feeling the need for.

Second, the only fight I've experienced which made me feel the need for that kind of assistance was with Garuda's massive AOE.

The problem with actually using it in this example is that:
1. It takes too long to apply to the members who might need it.
2. The tank is the only member who doesn't need it.
3. It's only effective on the tank.
4. Mages receive almost no increase to their pools from the spell and are only able to reduce the damage received by a minor amount.

Sacred Prism would encourage the use of the spell regardless in this condition because, after all, some protection is better than no protection, but honestly, I just switched to SCH and gave everyone Succor instead and that did the job just fine. Better in fact, because it also was useful in restoring their HP and recovering from the blast and continually applied a shield to them every time I put it out there.

No matter how you shake it or what kind of conditions you come up with that make Stoneskin sound useful, you're just struggling to find a place for a weakened spell that is a shadow of its former self.

Some protection is better than no protection is this spells ONLY defense, and it's a very weak one at that.

[Kyomih]

The forums are super confusing with information from earlier beta stages and even Version 1.0...

Thanks for the OP and +1 to raise as exclusive to Conj/WHM.

Is there ANYTHING in particular that is exclusive and important to a high level Conj/WHM btw? I haven't really seen anything so far? Well, besides regen?

Re stoneskin: Doesn't it pretty much negate a one shot on the tank?

[Paralein]

So far, it seems the White Mage has no healing abilities the Scholar doesn't, while the Scholar is the only healer with absorbs (and a pet that continues healing even if you run out of MP).

[Maldalewyn]

The forums are super confusing with information from earlier beta stages and even Version 1.0...

Thanks for the OP and +1 to raise as exclusive to Conj/WHM.

Is there ANYTHING in particular that is exclusive and important to a high level Conj/WHM btw? I haven't really seen anything so far? Well, besides regen?

Re stoneskin: Doesn't it pretty much negate a one shot on the tank?

WHM has generally seen enough improvement that the majority of their traits, abilities, and spell at least serve some purpose. (yes, even stoneskin)

All the Cures and Medica have obvious application, but because SE renamed their spells, the Cure spells are a bit confusing at first glance. With Cure I and II both being single target, you're thrown a curve ball with III, as it's an AoE like Medica... but not like Medica. Unlike Medica you can cast it from afar and basically "bomb" a small area with a Cure less effective than your Cure II. It serves some purpose obviously, but generally your Medica spells will serve you better as Cure III seems to be intended more as an emergency device. If you actually manage to trigger Overcure, and you also just so happen to be in a situation where you think to yourself, "Wow, I could use an AoE Cure right about now!" then Cure III would service you much better.

Obviously, the situations which call for Cure III will be less apparent than those that call for Medica, but it's there if you ever feel you need to do some faraway Cure bombs.

Holy is actually pretty nice for FATEs with large amounts of monsters and people, plus it's satisfying to set off a Holy Explosion and actually contribute in some pretty fair damage for once.

Shroud of Saints is your ONLY ability that helps you retain your MP. It would be wise to use it often during fights that may tax your MP reserves regardless of your Enmity situation.

Presence of Mind suffers from a stupidly long cool down, and you might see little benefit in the 10 seconds it gives you at first, but if you pair it with Divine Seal, you'll be dishing out HP like nobodies business.

So far, it seems the White Mage has no healing abilities the Scholar doesn't, while the Scholar is the only healer with absorbs (and a pet that continues healing even if you run out of MP).

They generally share the same sort of abilities, and while SCH has obvious advantages, they also can't cure as well in a tight situation like WHM can. When your party gets hit by an AoE and all of them are standing on their last leg, WHM can recover from this situation much more quickly than a SCH could.

Also, despite SCH originally being advertised as a HoT job, it is not. They only posses one HoT and only the Fairy Eos has access to it. While she casts it frequently, it is not always available and she is difficult to micromanage on your own to have it cast on demand.

WHM's Regen is far more accessible and powerful.

[Paralein]

They generally share the same sort of abilities, and while SCH has obvious advantages, they also can't cure as well in a tight situation like WHM can. When your party gets hit by an AoE and all of them are standing on their last leg, WHM can recover from this situation much more quickly than a SCH could.

Also, despite SCH originally being advertised as a HoT job, it is not. They only posses one HoT and only the Fairy Eos has access to it. While she casts it frequently, it is not always available and she is difficult to micromanage on your own to have it cast on demand.

WHM's Regen is far more accessible and powerful.

From what I have seen so far, a Scholar who waits for a big AE to have the party standing on their last leg is doing something wrong. I haven't played one yet, but from what I've been told, Scholar (contrary to White Mage) has no mana problems at all. If the Scholar really can afford wasting the occasional overheal, there is no reason not to have shields up on the party before the AE hits. Since the party won't drop as low, healing them to full will be much easier.

Could you share some lvl 50 numbers about the heal-over-time-spells? From the numbers I have seen on the various Wikis so far, Regen seems very underwhelming.
What are the MP costs of Cure (I/II) and Regen, and how much do they heal? And in the case of Regen: How fast is it ticking?

[Kyomih]

Thanks for the summary
Anyone tried macroing healing stance into your dps spells?
Not home so I can't test it but something like this maybe?

/ac "Healing Stance" <me>
/wait 5
/ac Stone" </t>
/wait 5
/ac "Healing Stance" <me>

No clue if that would work..

In regards to scholar. I am really concerned the fact that the fairy doesn't have any aether pool to work with makes it way too powerful. Yes they can't burst heal as much as a WHM/Conj but with all the mitigation they provide and ability to get skills from the other healing classes I see them being a cookie-cutter solution that is more powerful than its counter-options.

[Thunderz]

Experience so far.

if you don't have a BRD in your party... you will run into some serious MP problems if you have to consistently heal (hvy dmg situation)

WHM has long Casting time on its healing spells (I'm looking at you Cure II) which isn't that great when your trying to heal a party who isn't sitting next to each other

Medica is terrible in situations that getting close to the party is not a good idea (Ifrits hard mode), Cure III is very expensive and its AoE range isn't that great

In situations where you have to consistently move and cure WHM is just in serious trouble

Oh and when you cure people it automatically forces you to face the person ..... (Amdapor Keep 2nd boss just throwing it out there he will knock you off the platform if your not not in the proper angles etc)

In conclusion, I'm def not happy with WHM and will probably end up with a SCH as main heal.

My 2cents

[Kyomih]

The more I read about SCH and WHM I see WHM as typical MT healer during raids and SCH being AOE MA healer while both can somewhat help with AOE Healing.
It also sounds like SCH is more adaptable in small group end-game dungeon situations where you have a lot of positional work to do.
Does Regen/stoneskin combo not help with long casting times?

All in all it does sound like WHM is more challenging to play endgame.

[Paralein]

Experience so far.

if you don't have a BRD in your party... you will run into some serious MP problems if you have to consistently heal (hvy dmg situation)

WHM has long Casting time on its healing spells (I'm looking at you Cure II) which isn't that great when your trying to heal a party who isn't sitting next to each other

Medica is terrible in situations that getting close to the party is not a good idea (Ifrits hard mode), Cure III is very expensive and its AoE range isn't that great

In situations where you have to consistently move and cure WHM is just in serious trouble

Oh and when you cure people it automatically forces you to face the person ..... (Amdapor Keep 2nd boss just throwing it out there he will knock you off the platform if your not not in the proper angles etc)

In conclusion, I'm def not happy with WHM and will probably end up with a SCH as main heal.

My 2cents

That is exactly what I'm afraid of. Scholar pets seem adequate to do the bulk of long-duration, low-intensity healing, and they do it while the Scholar is moving, they do it while the Scholar is is stunned/silenced and they do it while the Scholar is OOM or even while the Scholar is DPSing.

With the White Mage, every single heal eats into the MP pool, the HoT effects appear to be not strong enough to keep a party topped off if while WM is stunned/silenced, there are no instants to keep on healing while the WM is moving, the MP regen skill is on a very long cooldown.

Yes, the burst-healing numbers for the WM are higher, but the Scholar can most likely at least partially avoid the need to burst-heal by throwing a few absorb shields around.