Ahldbhar - In Gridania?

[NoloeTazier]

Ok I've been wanting to make this post for quite some time now, it's highly speculative but it's made me quite giddy and might be a HUGE 'easter egg' by SE.




A lonely Roegadyn mage in a quiet little inn...talking about his Master. He's not a NPC you can click and interact with, so there's no name. Which is what makes this so speculative. However if Ahldbhar was away with sorcerers maybe the news of Louisoix's death reached him recently so he's made his way back. He does not have an Aetherial-device like the rest of the Archons because he was away. He's in Fallgourd lake and you don't see many Roegs in Gridania period, let alone one with a Thaumaturge staff. Ahldbhar was also said to be in despair when he left and joined the sorcerers, so he's not emotionless despite being associated with strength and power (like Rhalgr). The sentence "Master..." seems to denote that he's thinking deeply of this person and that they're probably not around. I do not remember this NPC prior to Phase 3, so I feel like he was added as an 'easter egg.'

• 'Hulking Roegadyn - √
• A Mage - √
• Lousioix would be his Master - √

A completely useless list after all that doesn't prove it's true. But hey, I tried. lol

As for the painting in the picture, I have no idea if it has any significance or what it really is. To me it looks like a man staring at a chocobo, maybe a depiction of Beltrant Durendaire and Ouranos and the Autumn War?

But overall, I'm probably completely off base but I wanted to put this out there for sometime now.

[Catapult]

I call red herring.

[NoloeTazier]

I call red herring.

Just a bit. However, I don't see why the other Archons wouldn't make an appearance somewhere down the road. Especially if they had any loyalty to Louisoix and ultimately share common goals. Whether it be in the 3 City-States or in Sharlayan itself. They would probably go to where they will be needed, the 3 City-States.

[Mtoto_Wamoto]

I'm gonna throw my hat in with the theory this could be Ahldbhar, though if it truly is him and he is thinking on his master, I don't think he's thinking of Louisoix. Recall that the story goes that Ahldbhar turned and joined the dark sorcerers who plagued the land in the Sixth Umbral Era. From what I could find, I couldn't find anything that explained what happened to Ahldbhar after he switched sides, and for all we know, he could still be working alongside the dark mages of yore and his master may be the Ascian we've been fighting against.

Further, this could be an easter egg. We also found Cid to be in phase 3 in the form of a grave keeper just north of Camp Drybone. His name is never stated, but if we look at him from under his hood, it clearly is Cid with his beard.



Edit: It could also be Obi Wan.

[NoloeTazier]

Sorcerers doesn't have to mean Ascians. After all Lambs of Dalamud are full of sorcerers. After all Ascians in 1.0 meant the Grim Reapers and Paragons were something entirely different. As for Ahldbhar turning tail in the Sixth Umbral, he'd be over 1500+ years old and as far as we know Elezen and Lalafell are the only races with longer than 'norm' life spans. The norm being Hyurs compared to us Humans. Also Louisoix was the Allseer of the Archons, Louisoix would still be his Master.

Good catch on the Cid 'easter egg.'

I'm looking forward to actually meeting the other Archons if they are included in the story somewhere down the line.

[Mtoto_Wamoto]

You're right, sorcerers doesn't have to mean Ascians, but with the same logic, that doesn't mean they aren't. It's all up in the air until we get confirmation, but unless you can point me towards any other immortal sorcerers, Ascians seem to fit the bill in my book

As for age, Urianger is rumored to have been present during the Sixth Umbral Era, putting him over 1500 years old as well if the rumors are to be believed. We know that Archons are the incarnations of the Twelve, but we don't know if each occurrence of the Archons are the same group of people, a new incarnation with each occurrence, or if the Twelve even truly manifest themselves in the form of Archons to begin with. Myths and legends tend to cloud the truth after several thousand years I'd imagine.

Lastly, if Louisoix is Ahldbhar's master, wouldn't that mean old Lou is in the 1500+ club as well? We know that Louisoix is the Allseer, that he is the leader of the Archons and the Circle of Knowing, but was he the Allseer when Ahldbar was present 1572 years ago? If he was, then that only helps defend the theory that Ahldbhard could be over 1500 years old himself and that he could possibly be wandering around the realm still. Again, I point to Urianger as an example. If he, Ahldbhar, and Loiusoix are over a millennia old, that would suggest that the Archons of yore are ancient and exceed the normal age of men, and normal men they aren't. If the myth of Archon's being incarnations of the Twelve is to be believed, I have a hunch that they're quite older than they lend themselves to be.

Edit: As for the title of Allseer...isn't Allseer just the title for the leader of the Circle of Knowing? I'm not entirely sold that Allseer means leader of the Archons.

[Mtoto_Wamoto]

I just wanted to add something else to this...

While they are part of the Circle of Knowing, I don't think Y'shtola, Yda, Papalymo, or Thancred are ever mentioned with the title of Archon. The only two within the Circle of Knowing to hold the title of Archon are Loiusoix and Urianger. On many occasions do NPCs refer to Louisoix as Archon Louisoix, much like NPCs reffered to Ahldbhar as Archon Ahldbhar. Urianger gets the same treatment.

The other four in the Circle of Knowing may just be pupils of Louisoix, hence why they seem to know less than their leader and why Urianger and Louisoix seem to know quite a great deal as to the things happening in the realm - They have previous experience with it.

As for the matter of Ascians, grim reaper looking things, Paragons, and the NPCs we've encountered so far, I'm of two minds.

The first is that SE may have simply retconned the lore of the Ascians since 1.0. Remember that the 1.0 main story line was established when Tanaka was in charge. The fall of Dalamud and the release of Bahamut wasn't decided until Yoshida took the reigns. This wouldn't be the first time SE has retconned things into the lore. Due to the changes in the lore and the differences in direction, the grim reaper Ascians may have simply been updated into being the Ascians we see now in ARR. The Elezen who we encounter that we've been led to believe is an Ascian as well may have been retconned into being a hooded mage too. We don't know until we can get confirmation (if we ever do that is) on this bit of lore.

My second stance says there is a hierarchy of some sort in place. I believe Moose touched on this theory in another thread, but let me throw in my own thoughts into the mix.

What if...the grim reaper-like Ascian we see in the 1.0 main quest line is a much much older Ascian, or even more, one who did not complete their blood pact with the demon lords? Think Fal'cie and L'cie. In a similar manner where if a L'cie does not complete the focus granted to them by the Fal'cie, they become a C'ieth. Assuming Ascians are immortal sorcerers who made a pact with the demon lords of the seven hells, what if an Ascian who doesn't complete his blood pact turns into one of those things? That could mean that the supposed Ascian who steals the horn in 1.0 was a newly inducted Ascian and the two Ascians we see might be Ascians who've been around for awhile now. It's just a theory with no substantial evidence, but I thought I throw it out there in the case others could add on to it or dismiss it.

[Mjollnir]

Further, this could be an easter egg. We also found Cid to be in phase 3 in the form of a grave keeper just north of Camp Drybone. His name is never stated, but if we look at him from under his hood, it clearly is Cid with his beard.

And the goggles^^

But it's not an Easter Egg, it's a major plot point! The main story quests that involve him are clearly lining him up for his 'unveiling' and redemption.

[Orophin]

If he were an Archon he'd have the tattoos on each side of his neck, no?

[NoloeTazier]

I just wanted to add something else to this...

While they are part of the Circle of Knowing, I don't think Y'shtola, Yda, Papalymo, or Thancred are ever mentioned with the title of Archon. The only two within the Circle of Knowing to hold the title of Archon are Loiusoix and Urianger. On many occasions do NPCs refer to Louisoix as Archon Louisoix, much like NPCs reffered to Ahldbhar as Archon Ahldbhar. Urianger gets the same treatment.

The other four in the Circle of Knowing may just be pupils of Louisoix, hence why they seem to know less than their leader and why Urianger and Louisoix seem to know quite a great deal as to the things happening in the realm - They have previous experience with it.

snip~

Yeah, I argued this point quite a bit in the past because it's never stated they're Archons in game, but SE went ahead and made them so. We don't know if there is any criteria to become an Archon, whether that be born in Sharlayan and taught certain knowledge to one day take over a vacant Archon spot or if it's somehow a chosen thing.

If he were an Archon he'd have the tattoos on each side of his neck, no?

Possibly, you can't really see his neck no matter how much you rotate the camera. Nor do we even know if all Archons have the mark. If it's a magical mark, maybe he removed it himself when he left to join the sorcerers. Who knows.

I just wanted to point out this mysterious and lonely Roegadyn off in the corner by himself. Peering into a picture and contemplating his "Master..." even if it's just some random Thaumaturge Roegadyn I'd like to know who he is. After all Hellsguard Roegadyn are good with magic, Sea Wolf (which he looks like) were more like pirates and prefer to beat people to a pulp physically. Just seems mysterious to me even if it's nothing.