Explaining the Battle Animation and Effect Shortcomings [+ Discussion]

[Betelgeuzah]

I'd like this thread to be more constructive in nature, and analyze everything related to the current animation and particle effect issues rather than focus on just the size increase. As I don't have the exact terminology down, I don't mind people with more knowledge pointing out the mistakes in what I am about to say. The easier it is for developers to understand the issues, the better.

With that said, let's start.

1) The particle effects are sometimes too small to be aesthetically satisfying.

They are taking care of this in the next patch, so I will not discuss it in more detail.

2) The 'placeholder' animations for some of the higher rank spells and skills are more or less underwhelming.

In particular some of the higher rank spells and skills suffer from this trend. Let me show you a few examples:

First off, here is a high rank skill done correctly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Evmhd2pNzU

While the particle effects could be larger, that should be taken care of.

Now, here is a sixfold spear skill:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_u1O...tailpage#t=55s

As you can see, only one hit out of six is shown. While the particle effects are fine, the animation itself looks like a placeholder that never got replaced properly.

More widely known are the current "Ancient Magic" spells:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wodu_aYjSdU

They are completely underwhelming for what they represent. So much so that simply increasing their size will not be enough to make them look acceptable.

There are not too many skills and spells that need this kind of makeover, but they certainly exist and should not be overlooked. If anyone has more examples I will list them here.

3) The animation and particle effects are cut from the middle if you initiate a new action while the old animation has not finished.

To show an example of this, let us look at the previous video in more detail (the bit at 00:05-00:07):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_u1OOzJogU

As you can see, both the animation and effects of 'Speed Surge' were cut off once the character in question initiated 'Line of Fire'. While this is understandable when it comes to the actual animation portion of the action, it does not matter whether the particle effects are large or not if they are going to be abruptly cut from the middle every time a new action is initiated. That, I feel, is a much larger problem than the actual size of the effect. I do not know what causes this, but it is aesthetically very displeasing.

4) There is a lack of proper transition animations from one action to the next.

When looking at the previous video in a different light, we can see that character's limbs tend to disappear and reappear once actions overlap, and the transition from one action to the next is not visually smooth, but ends very abruptly. I think this is a problem with the motion capture technology. While it is more of an aesthetic issue, it really makes the character's actions seem more disconnected and unnatural. The time and effort that went into creating these animations is more or less a waste with the way they function right now.

Here is an example of well-done transition animations:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abQJW...eature=related

As you can see, while the animation may not completely finish the character model returns to it's default position naturally before initiating the new action. Very rarely do limbs disappear and reappear in between actions. This is aesthetically very important to get right.

5) Movement is not sharp enough for a game that requires more mobility, and moving around the battlefield is quite cumbersome.

What I mean by this is the small movement you make whilst stopping that moves you forward just slightly to make it feel like you are not in total control of your movements.

To show an example, look at what happens between 00:24-00:27 in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKbh6...tailpage#t=17s

When you stop, you still move an inch forward anyway. We should be able to disable this feature for the sake of control. Further, as in active mode you move at -20% speed I think removing this penalty would make things flow smoother during combat. With that addition I think strafing from side to side could use a speed increase as well, if you want to promote that sort of movement. If you want to encourage party vs. party encounters I think you should make being mobile during the battle a more "natural" and "sharp" experience, with fast movements and as little lag as possible. The way basic attacks also move you forward and backward feels quite unnatural as well, not to mention they tend to glitch due to lag and you won't actually "move" anywhere.

6) Every skill roots you to the ground.

This is a problem that ties to 5) as well. When every action, including changing modes from passive to active and vice-versa root you to the ground, moving around becomes too much of a hindrance and completely kills the pace of combat. In comparison to Final Fantasy XI, you could at least move around whilst performing basic attacks. In this game allowing for this sort of mobility is more than crucial.

While it may be too much work to unlock every action, having only some of the skills root you to the ground would be a good middleground. Basically meaning that the basic attacks, beneficial status skills (such as Speed Surge and the like) and pulling out your weapon of choice should be changed so that you can move whilst doing them, while other skills such as weapon skills and spell animations are sped up and the animations streamlined much like with the changes to the way Disciplines of the Land animations were adjusted. The point, in the end, is to make it feel like you are not rooted to the ground and if you are, there is a reasonable explanation for it and the animation does not take ages to finish as you adjust your leg slightly to the left and move your right shoulder a bit in a "realistic" way after the action has already finished, stopping you from moving for the duration of it.

Here is an example of a game where the animations are sharp, fast, and do not take ages to finish:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_F8B...eature=related

Please take a note at how the movement is also very smooth.

7) The lack of distinct sound effects makes it hard to determine which spells and skills are being used.

For example, in FFXI most enfeebling spells had a distinct sound effect to them that, along with the particle effects helped us to keep track of other people's actions and the pace of combat. "Provoke" in particular had quite a noticeable sound effect. Here you should be careful as to not make the sound effects annoying if used repeatedly.

Alright, that's all I can think of. If you, the community, want SE to address these issues the best way to do that is to participate in the discussion and give us your opinion so that the community representatives will take note and see it as an issue worth mentioning.

[solracht]

Great post and I hope everyone takes a moment to read through it, as it actually touches a few issues that haven't been talked about in other threads, yet deserve as much attention as the popular ones.


Personally I think #3 and #4 are the biggest problems with our animations/effects, and most people will not notice them until better and longer spell effects are added to the game.

Food for thought:

Picture Aero IV, and imagine it has the best spell effect in the game. Winds are called forth, hurricanes appear, and to finish it off, a tornado surrounds the enemy. Would you care about how awesome the spell effect is, if it's going to get cut off before the hurricanes actually show up, because you used Spirit Dart?


Unfortunately I do not know how hard this would be to fix. I'm assuming the issue is caused by the effects being tied to the character model.

Issues #3 and #4 are probably a sign that the animations were made for the alpha battle system, where it was almost impossible to overlap skills due to the bar that would fill before every action.

I'm honestly afraid of hearing an official response about issues #3 and #4, because I'm afraid of being told that these things are too deep in to be changed at this point. This would be a shame: It could mean that animations and spell effects would always look lackluster in our eyes, no matter how great they actually looked, simply because we would not get to experience them.

[DeadRiser]

I agree with Solracht.. it urks me that the transition is just so unclean. Maybe this might change with auto-attack? Who knows but I really hope you can't spam skill after skill and it looks like a flailing monkey.
GREAT POST and good points. Well done

[Rivers]

I fully agree with everything in this thread, they are my main concerns to make this game more pleasing to the eye and fun to play. I have confidence that the new battle system and such will be good, since they are working hard on that. However in the meantime, we needs more pleasing combat animations!

[Betelgeuzah]

Thanks for the comments so far, keep 'em coming so we can make a difference!

This game is visually spectacular, but to make it really stand out the shortcomings need to be dealt with.

[Zezlar]

Ohhh SKIPPY!!! Rather than actually make nicely detailed battle effects they decided to enhance them to make them two times bigger. I am losing my patience with Final Fantasy XIV. This game can't be saved. Increasing the effect size doesn't change the fact that most of the animations are just awful. Stop quick fixing this game. If you really want to quick fix this game, just bury it and start over. This isn't Final Fantasy.

[Chory]

Stop quick fixing this game. If you really want to quick fix this game, just bury it and start over. This isn't Final Fantasy.

Thats exactly what Im saying since beta tests. Over nine months have passed and it is still actual. Seriously, what did SE really improved since beta tests? Game is noticeably more stable (still far from perfect), UI works noticeably smoother (still far from perfect), Skillups were replaced with SP/mob, leve linking gives extra SP, recipes list for DoH, and thats pretty much it. Everything else is somewhere between lame and not needed (vide larger mobs, aggro icon, sidequests, couple of NMs and 3 sets of good looking armor (since gear stats dont make much difference, it really is the look only). Its getting harder and harder to be optimistic about FFXIV future.

[Betelgeuzah]

unnecessary comment x

[Boricua]

This would be a shame: It could mean that animations and spell effects would always look lackluster in our eyes, no matter how great they actually looked, simply because we would not get to experience them.

I had this same gripe in FFXI, where many would gear swap prior to a spell or weaponskill and doing so would void its animation, most notably stun where all you would see was the blinks of your character into the set and back out of the set.

That said it seems to me that only very few abilities should allow players to move while performing them, drawing a weapon should be one of them, seeing as movement speed is already lowered in active mode. Weaponskills should not allow player movement during them until the animation is over, unless MAYBE a ranged WS, where the animation lies almost entirely on the target rather than the caster. I could see defensive spells allowing movement during the animation but certainly not offensive, it seems ample courtesy that player movement no longer interrupts casting.

[Betelgeuzah]

They can still make the other abilities faster to execute however. Or at least make the period in which you can't move smaller.