Truely separating class from job - an overhaul (again).

[Reika]

Even though they did an overhaul to all classes in order to create jobs, I believe much of the overhaul was overdone and uneccisary. Classes only needed to be tuned and balanced to suit their roles, while the jobs would be completely different from the classes and suit their own roles. After their overhaul, classes pretty much became useless once you had the job for it. Their idea of classes being for solo died swiftly as people including me found that the job was much much better for soloing than the class.

I believe another overhaul is needed to achieve true separation of class and job. One of the major flaws is that a job learns only a measly 5 extra skills/spells which was suspost to define it. It doesn't do the trick, at all. All it does is change the class into an advanced class. The job can still use everything the class could, with only less cross class skills - which didn't effect the jobs ability to still do what the class could do + more.

The Idea of my overhaul is to add onto the spells/skills learned through the job quests as level up skills, and start the jobs out at level 20 instead of 30. I will use the THM for the first example. (I dont kn[

THMs is mostly reverted back to before the class overhaul (pre-elemental spells). Zam thankfully still has a list of their old skills: http://www.zam.com/wiki/Thaumaturge_%28FFXIV%29 Some modifications to it are to be made (to get rid of some of II's and III's, add more traits, and rebalance to fit its lore and not be OP as it use to be)

• lvl1 : Banish and Scourge - scales potency and increases MP costs with level (as with all spells)
• lvl4 : Sacrifice single target (Slightly higher MP cost with HP cost for the extra regen effect)
• lvl6 : Trait - increase Aattack Macc
• lvl8 : Poison
• lvl10: Resurrect
• lvl12: Trait - increase Enfeeble Macc
• lvl14: Slow
• lvl16: Bio and Dia
• lvl18: Trait - Increase duration of poison
• lvl20: Attribute Drains

None of these has to be exactly as listed, but would be a start. At lvl 20 player will be able to unlock the BLM job to attatch to thm. This time, the BLM will have spells, abilities and traits avaliable at level up, the ones that were quested for can remain quested for.


BLM at 20 loses the ability to use the attribute drains, sacrifice, resurrect, scourge/banish and gains its first spell Fire:

• lvl20: Fire and Fira (fira is the aoe version)
• lvl21: Blizard and Blizara
• lvl22: Thunder and thundara(potencies equal! and all unusable as thm)
• lvl24: Trait - increase Attack Mpotency (BLM only)
• lvl26: Ability - Increase Attack M Crit rate until getting a critical
• lvl28: Sleep
• lvl30: Trait increase Att M Crit rate

Etc Etc


Meanwhile THM will be learing these:

• lvl22 Sacriga (or sacrifice II)
• lvl24 Trait - Decrease HP cost of sacrifice (not II)
• lvl26 Banishga and Scourga (Aoe versions)
• lvl28 Gravity
• lvl30 Drain

So on and on. This way, class and job get truely separated and dont become useless in the name of jobs, and creates 8 more playstyle choices for a total of 16.

And I know, it would be a big overhaul. But SE is perfectly capable of big overhauls, and I think this will be for the best. And yes, it will take 'time' lol. I would rather they take the time to make this system work rather than handing us another steaming pile of crap where they might as well delete classes.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

boring topic is boring. Also, this "overhaul", as you know, effectively double the number of classes. While it seems a good thing, they'll also double the time testing new content before releasing, and for what ?

[Reika]

boring topic is boring. Also, this "overhaul", as you know, effectively double the number of classes. While it seems a good thing, they'll also double the time testing new content before releasing, and for what ?

For what is obvious, for classes to not be useless. I thought I made that clear.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

i would say let talk arr before say if classes suck or not :||

[Reika]

I don't believe in waiting to see if its broken or not. People are still making these threads 'in case' they didn't think of the ideas yet. They could very well have the same bad idea system they brought about with the first class reform in order to introduce jobs.

[Mjollnir]

Worth bearing in mind, that although at close of 1.0, jobs only added 5 abilities to the class, consider that the devs will have planned out character progression to level 99 (or whatever they've decided the game will eventually cap at).

If we get a +10 level cap raise every year or two, with another five abilities for each job, and three new jobs every year or two, that's a ton of new abilities and options coming in the future.

I imagine that classes will continue to be used twofold; as gateway to unlock one or more jobs and as a stronger solo option.

Personally, I would prefer the class specialization you've talked about to instead be a different job (eg from THM, both BLM and NEC), but that whole job progression thing is a discussion for elsewhere. I can see your point for wanting the base class to fulfil the role rather than adding more jobs, I just prefer the thought of more jobs.

[Biggs]

boring topic is boring. Also, this "overhaul", as you know, effectively double the number of classes. While it seems a good thing, they'll also double the time testing new content before releasing, and for what ?

Thank god for the Internet right ?! I mean, in real life if someone said the first part of your statement in a conversation you would get punched in the mouth for being an a-hole. But not on the forums, am I right !?

Ahhhh the Internet , housing cowards since 1969.

I like your ideas op, they help flesh out a system that needs it without ruining either class nor job. Don't listen to Joan Rivers up here. She just doesn't know how to act in public anymore

[Orophin]

I'm reserving judgment until beta, but if their class and job overhauls are at what level you get abilities and how said abilities were re-worked, I'm not really going to be impressed. I'm still a huge proponent of how classes and jobs need to be separate enough identities that you would want to pick one over the other for specific situations, and all I'm seeing so far is how classes will probably be useful in PvP and that's about it.

[Dzian]

I'm Kinda reserving judgement till beta but i have one comment.

With the op's examples of skills and progression it really doesnt work out any differently than totally detaching jobs from the armory system alltogether. you just just as easily have a seperate skill set from 1-20 as you do 20+

the advantage of seperating them entirely though means you have infinitely more diversity because each and every job can be built on a totally blank frame. where by keeping them connected a black mage will still be built on a thaumatage frame and thus be restricted to thaumatage mechanics of a sort.

Plus in the ops example everything that follows the thm path could pretty easily fit a red mage job frame.
in which case my arguement would be that it would be simply better to have 2 totally seperate jobs. blm and rdm, both independant from the other than to try and branch them both out from one frame

[AmandaHuggenkiss]

I don't believe in waiting to see if its broken or not.

Agreed.
I believe in forming an opinion without seeing anything of solid facts of what is really going on.