[Speculation Discussion] Our Primal

[Anonymoose]

DISCLAIMER - BASELESS (BUT SENSIBLE) SPECULATION AHOY
If you've only had fun once, and it was TURRBLE, maybe take a pass on this one.

So! It's the conclusion of FFXIV 1.X and there are still questions to be answered! Throughout the storyline, we've had several hints that perhaps, in spite of The Twelve, a primal has been getting involved with us, and it's possibly that this primal is responsible for our Power of the Echo. These clues include but are not limited to the Path leader's doubts and Ifrit's guarantee.

However, since that time, we've seen visual evidence that The Twelve exist, and Yoshi-P's statement seems to imply a harsh binary rather than a fluid one. Does this mean a primal isn't influencing us in spite of our worship? Does it mean that the NPC who says that The Twelve and the Primals have a considerable amount in common may be exaggerating?

What do you think? Is there a primal on our tails? If so - WHO?

POSSIBILITY ONE:
There's no primal on our tails; Just The Twelve

Supporting Evidence

• Yoshida-san's recent post places a harsh binary between The Twelve and The Primals
• The final cutscene of Final Fantasy XIV 1.X showed The Twelve proof-positive exist.

Conflicting Evidence

• Just because we worship The Twelve doesn't mean a Primal's not interfering
• The Twelve, like Primals, require aether to be summoned and may be very similar
• Minfilia expresses doubt that The Echo is from The Twelve at all.
• Ifrit states that he smells a primal's touch upon us; demands to know whom it is

POSSIBILITY TWO:
A Primal is interfering with our kind - SIREN

Supporting Evidence:

• Siren's defining attributes are her harp (which inflicts Silence and, sometimes, sleep) and her head-wings
• A harp plays at the beginning of "Answers," the song to which you awaken
• In the Limsa Lominsa storyline, after awakening to the Echo, an NPC asks if you really heard a songtress, or if it was "just a siren"
• An NPC on The Astalicia, a ship that is home to pirate gangs including The Sanguine Sirens) plays the first few notes of "Answers" on a harp
• When you obtain your powers, you are called Woken; if Siren's attack inflicts sleep, and you are her ally, you would be awake.
• Siren's main attack with the harp was originally called Hope Song, could this be an allusion to "Answers"?
• Hope Song inflicts Silence, which must be cured with Echo herbs/drops
• There is a primal who looks like Garuda with vertical head-wings in the ARR concept art
• This primal does not appear on the ARR beastmen poster
• Siren in XIII has vertical head wings

Conflicting Evidence

• Siren is confirmed boss content - why fight our own primal?

POSSIBILITY THREE
A primal is interfering with our kind - ALEXANDER

Supporting Evidence:

• Previous Final Fantasy evidence links "our side" to Alexander
• Alexander has strong associations with machina and divinity, two of our priorities

Conflicting Evidence:

• If it has anything to do with machines - what about the other races who use machines?

POSSIBILITY 4:
A primal is interfering with our kind - ODIN

Supporting Evidence:

• On the poster, he is opposite Bahamut, our new sworn enemy

POSSIBILITY FIVE:
Primals are interfering with our kind; One for Each Race


POSSIBILITY SIX:
The Twelve are primals

Supporting Evidence

• Similar requirements for summoning and maintenance
• Archon lore and Paragon lore is nearly identical

Conflicting Evidence

• Some lore credits The Twelve with creating the primals

POSSIBILITY SEVEN:
Regardless of all other factors, The Echo and Awakening are from a mother crystal

Supporting Evidence

• Many Final Fantasy heroes in the past (and early) series were called by "The Crystal"
• Yoshida-san has a clear agenda to bring Final Fantasy back to its core roots while using later games as accentuation inspiration
• The voice-over in the "Heed the Crystals Call" advertisement sounds like the girl who speaks with The Songstress
• No one can identify the "taint" on you, though they attribute it to a primal, it might not be!

[Draxis_Fallspear]

Question:

If "we" did have a primal? Wouldn't each of the 5 races have their own?

[Bowen]

ALEXANDER

Evidence:[LIST][*] We are the only race that uses machines.

I'd like for this to happen so bad...

[Anonymoose]

I've wondered that myself... at least the miqo'te, no!? COUGHcaitsithCOUGH

The fact that all of the races get The Echo, and all of the races are referred to as Woken, and all of the races are on the Path makes me think SE is just... skating over this one.

That is, unless The Twelve all agreed to give the same echo to their patrons...

[Orophin]

The lore post from Yoshi-P said that the beastmen worship Primals and we worship The Twelve. Would that not mean we don't have Primals associated with us?

The only thing that contradicts this is during "Lord Errant" when Ifrit hints at we have the power to call forth a Primal but are ignorant on how to do so. (this may hint at the future of the Summoner job) He also says if we renounce all other Primals and worship him, we'll be saved from whatever impending disaster that's to come. However, it's no surprise that there are some gaps between the original storyline and the 7th Umbral storyline, so it could be the lore has changed between the two.

[Anonymoose]

The lore post from Yoshi-P said that the beastmen worship Primals and we worship The Twelve
...
it could be the lore has changed between the two.

Indeed! However, what we worship and how we refer to it isn't always linked to reality, per se. For instance, both the primals and The Twelve require the same thing to physically manifest - aether - suggesting that while they may look, act, and end up referred to differently, that they are very similar beings. This was stated by a Seventh Umbral Era NPC, which makes me wonder.

[Draxis_Fallspear]

This information from the post-Dalamud Yoshi thread:

- Eorzea is home to many deities. The beast tribes worship the primals, and the five races (Hyur, Elezen, Miqo'te, Lalafell, Roegadyn) revere the Twelve.
- The van Darnus family is of the blood of ancient Allag, and are the keepers of its secrets.
- An Ishgardian theologian who studied the dragons and their gods was kidnapped by the Empire and taken to the Aurum Vale.
- In the battle with Garuda, the primal says: "This is the price of your folly. The price of using the crystals' power─MY POWER!─to waken the other from slumber.

In that post, he also mentions that the dragons are a beast tribe. Now, if the Allaghans originally trapped the dragons' primal, I would assume they would be pissed. Therefore, I would think that the dragons would have decided to go and attack the Empire directly.

The Garuda quote and the fact that the van Darnuses know more than anyone else suggest to me that they might be interested in summoning a primal themselves. Being in conflict with the dragons may have pushed them to do exactly that. They may have captured the theologian to understand more about how to summon a primal, and they may have been trying to kill off the other primals in an effort to gather enough energy to summon their own. In that case, I would think that Odin would end up being the Empire's primal (I don't think that the three city-states would be foolish enough to risk summoning a primal themselves.

[Elexia]

Siren was already confirmed to be boss content, so it'd be quite odd if we had to fight our own Primal. Odin is considered the 'grand' primal or something different in terms of primals as well as wandering boss content, which again would make it weird to fight our own Primal.

Alexander and Fenrir is possible, since in FFIX Alexander was basically the final summoning for protection but in FFXI he was to bring about Ragnarok (Divine Judgement) which Odin fought him since it would remove willing souls (killing everyone) to bind contracts with him (Odin.)

Since they're looking at XI in certain ways (just think about both Bahamuts for a second if played it) seeing Alexander as ours makes sense.

[Fantasia]

Indeed! However, what we worship and how we refer to it isn't always linked to reality, per se. For instance, both the primals and The Twelve require the same thing to physically manifest - aether - suggesting that while they may look, act, and end up referred to differently, that they are very similar beings. This was stated by a Seventh Umbral Era NPC, which makes me wonder.

I don't think we get one. Like Orophin said; we're devoted to The Twelve whereas Primals are beastmen-orientated. Doesn't necessarily mean that we won't get any Primals which -prefer- to help/protect us, but when it comes to summoning rites we're exclusively The Twelve's followers.

And before any points out 'Summoners use Ifrit' etc, they're utilising "essences" and aren't calling the Primals themselves.

[Doho]

On the Alexander evidence, erh... other races use machines. Kobolds, Goblins?