Job Individuality/Pride/Dedication

[Crevox]

I really think the armory system is silly, especially being able to switch classes anywhere. Your class becomes a meaningless choice. Anyone can be anything anytime, so who or what you've grown yourself to be ends up being irrelevant. There's so many times where this comes into play.

1. People want you to swap to the job that is most effective for the situation, all the time; too bad if you want to play X, you're forced to play Y or be kicked. In FFXI I'm sure this happened too, but mid dungeon they're like "we're against coincounter? you can't play melee, swap to ranged now or we're kicking." This happened for many encounters. In other games such as FFXI it was like "I know that job you're playing isn't THE BEST for the situation, but I'm sure we'll get by." People also don't seem to understand that just because you have the class/job doesn't mean you want to play it and doesn't mean you are experienced/geared/skilled with it. I played WHM a lot and sometimes I was asked to go BLM and I said I probably wasn't going to be comfortable with it (lack of gear, didn't play it enough to feel safe on enmity, didn't want to take the risk) and people just didn't seem to understand why I wouldn't go BLM for them (and I was seen as rude).

2. It's not fun when you're like "oh check out my cool dragoon armor and lance" and the other guy goes "oh yeah" and just swaps to it too immediately. It ruins individuality, and gets rid of the ability to say "I AM A DRAGOON" (because technically you can be anything anytime). The class/job choice you make is meaningless, and you just don't have that good feeling about it. I understand people can swap jobs in FFXI too, but anyone can be anything anytime... I want to feel good about having Carbuncle walk around with me, and yet anyone can have him out with them with a push of a button.

3. A large portion of the reason everyone levels up every class/job is because it's so easy. Swap your weapon, gg good to go. It's difficult to feel accomplished saying like "I am a level 50 WHM" in your party. Not only does most of the party have that too, they'll be like "oh I can just switch to that." Sure, you can switch at your house or whatever in FFXI, but that was a LOT more effort to take for a lot of reasons (gotta have the gear which was harder to fully get, had to have the high level job which was harder, and had to spend a long time going back to who knows where to switch and come back). You were appreciated for playing that class, you had individuality, you felt good; in this game, who cares. If a party is 7/8 and just needs a WHM, instead of looking for that dedicated soul who actually is skilled and geared and loves the class, it's just "I'll just switch to WHM" *equip staff*. In worse situations, someone who loves their job (that dedicated dragoon guy) is forced to play WHM because the party is pressuring him to (they know he has WHM).

In FFXIV 2.0, I'm gonna want to main Summoner. But, what bums me out, is that EVERYONE is going to be leveling it at launch, even though a lot of people have zero interest in it. They're just doing it "because they can." Yeah I know a lot of people want to see the lower level content and don't have any other classes to experience it, but still... what's going to set me apart from the people that are just "summonerlols" and me, a serious dedicated person to the job? It should feel like a strong dedication and others should be like "wow, you got that far with summoner/you have that much gear/SOMETHING" rather than just *swap weapon* "yup I'm as good as you now."

I'm finding it difficult to articulate my point, but I hope you understand.

And I know I posted this in another thread, but I felt it was a slightly different topic and the content of the post deserved its own thread.

EDIT: Here's a good post by IronSoup that also explain some of what I'm trying to say:

In FFXIV, it is fairly easy to be good in any jobs it has to offer compared to FFXI where you needed skills to be able to simply play the job correctly. Even mastering a job is easier than it was in FFXI. Based on that and being an old FFXI player, I have a hard time feeling proud or using the word dedication to master a job since I put more time and efforts doing the same in FFXI.

Unless they completely change the gameplay, I don't think I'll ever feel the same pride in my main job as I did in FFXI or need to dedicate myself to a single job to master it. The level of effort needed is lower so the feeling of accomplishment is also lower.

Here's more from me:

Also, even if you're playing a warrior in a 2.0 dungeon, how easy is it gonna be for you to grab gear for your alternate jobs? Most of the time, you don't even have to play that job and you end up gearing it just because "hey look I got an garuda bow, now my archer is pro." That's not dedication to archer at all, you just happened to grab a bow playing a different class. If you were forced to play archer in order to get archer equipment, and some archer guy had TONS of great archer gear... now that's dedication.

[Soukyuu]

The original version of the armory made more sense. You could really build your character and it took time to redistribute the point, which prevented instant swapping. Armory as it is now is basically useless.

[Quesse]

You wanna be dedicated, level all your DoL to 50 >.>

I actually didn't really like that FFXI was so limiting in its job selection - in that it was completely annoying before abyssea to level more than 2-3 jobs to 75 and gear them. You had to really pick what to focus on and didn't get to enjoy all the jobs that FFXI had to offer.

In FFXIV I don't play a whole lot and I mainly solo, but I've been able to get 9 jobs to 50 and been able to enjoy the variety more. In 2.0 I'm going to focus on mage a bit more and then maybe tank so that I can offer dd/mage/tank in any situation. Its great to have a more flexible character - you can accomplish so much more that way.

One way I appreciate this a lot is the DoH classes. In FFXI you could choose one. Now I can level them all. Its great to have the flexibility to make/repair all my gear, attach materia, go for HQ, etc. I'm really happy about this.

[Dzian]

I actually didn't really like that FFXI was so limiting in its job selection - in that it was completely annoying before abyssea to level more than 2-3 jobs to 75 and gear them. You had to really pick what to focus on and didn't get to enjoy all the jobs that FFXI had to offer.

Personally that's what I liked about it. it made things alot more diverse. everyone had a different set of jobs levelled and there weren't really many people the same. and in a way ensured people could play what they wanted. if you had dragoon you weren't told to go warrior or sam or whatever. you could happily stay drg. in xiv though even if you have drg you'd go monk at miser....

I'm told drg's really do well at misers but i've never seen one. which kinda highlights the problem

[Quesse]

I actually didn't really like that FFXI was so limiting in its job selection - in that it was completely annoying before abyssea to level more than 2-3 jobs to 75 and gear them. You had to really pick what to focus on and didn't get to enjoy all the jobs that FFXI had to offer.

Personally that's what I liked about it. it made things alot more diverse. everyone had a different set of jobs levelled and there weren't really many people the same. and in a way ensured people could play what they wanted. if you had dragoon you weren't told to go warrior or sam or whatever. you could happily stay drg. in xiv though even if you have drg you'd go monk at miser....

But you're missing my point. I understand that you guys don't want to be stuck at the same job for every fight. But taking the flexibility away robs people of the fun of being able to pick different jobs at any time. Just because some groups idiotically stick to prescribed party formulas like sheep, doesn't mean all do. It would be sad to rob those people of fun just because you're bitter. Ideally, the job/armoury system is great. Let's not fix it by getting rid of it >.<

This isn't the armoury system's fault. It's the playerbase's fault. Don't go picking at SE for what the community themselves have limited on their own.

Exactly! Great post!

[Shadow_Sama]

In many ways, I can relate to where you're coming from. My passion has always been Ninja, and its the class that I'm going to want to dedicate myself to. Put in all my effort to be the best Ninja I can be. It's going to suck wanting to play my NIN, but having to play something else just because some content demands the role of another job. It's my greatest hope that Square Enix can design content that is challenging, but doesn't "require" particular jobs to be successful. With any luck, maybe the content will be better balanced so that any job can do any content, so long as the player is skilled enough and appropriately geared.

[Felis]

Hmm, it begin again
This "20 threads for 1 theme" thing

[Crevox]

Hmm, it begin again
This "20 threads for 1 theme" thing

I felt my point was slightly different than the one other thread that existed on the subject.

If you don't have anything useful to contribute to the discussion (or don't care about the subject at all) don't post and don't enter the thread.

[PotatoSalad]

Every single content at 1.0 was doable with any job setup, you see the issue here is most players are LAZY, refuckinemphasize on lazy, if you want to do strat your way, then go make your own strat, go setup the party and proof to people it works and people will starts using it.

BUT no, people would rather on freakin whine on forum instead of refining their own strat, they would rather people carry their ass. So, they keep using the strategy that apparently they hates. Well, guess what? freaking suck it up if you are lazy.

This is MMO, there is never true balance, some job will shines at certain instances, some at others. Get this in your head deeply, this is the price you have to pay for uniqueness. What devs can do is make them all viable in the fights and that is what they already did.

Ifrit? magic and melee burnable
Moogle? magic and melee burnable
Garuda? you need both magic and melee to win
25m Speedrun instaces? you can win with any combination of battle classes


This issue isn't going away in a game where holy trinities exist, so suck it up.

You tell 'em, boy!

[indira]

OP i know what you mean.

i hate when i have my best equip job monk kicked to the curb then have to switch to something i hate and didnt bother equiping because i hate it like blm. because people refuse to try another way.

well im hoping the content finder works like wow's raid finder that way they select you in a role not a job.
everything about "do it this way only" is an excuse for people who cant think and need to be systematic. i been in plenty of good partys where they told everyone just pick whatever you want after the healer & tank was decided. in the end if everyones not on the same page you gonna fail regardless.

SE need to make a way where you define your character as that "job" is what i'am.