Job Individuality/Pride/Dedication

[Wolfie]

And unfortunately people are oppurtunists as well, if all the jobs were to be balanced out, people would still go for whatever job DPSs the highest and what not (even if it was 'balanced' there'd be that miniscule factor that hardcore players would scrutinize about), it happens with any game that gives you a list of choices.

There will always be 'fad' classes and jobs that poor players use as a crutch. But when you balance out the classes, spread useful skills/buffs/debuffs around, balance the bosses, and have an even item distribution for the bosses, you minimize class fads and class stacking.

[Crevox]

Cutter's Cry having you go Black Mage > Dragoon > Black Mage > Monk is an example of one of these strats. This post just seems like someone who's upset that they aren't a special snowflake due to this system.

I really don't like strats like this. I want to play the class that I want to play because I like that class - why should I be forced to play multiple classes?

[whoopeeragon]

This isn't the armoury system's fault. It's the playerbase's fault. Don't go picking at SE for what the community themselves have limited on their own.

[Ruisu]

I really don't like strats like this. I want to play the class that I want to play because I like that class - why should I be forced to play multiple classes?

Because you're not being forced?

[Jocko]

This isn't the armoury system's fault. It's the playerbase's fault. Don't go picking at SE for what the community themselves have limited on their own.

While I'm not agreeing with either side, I don't quite see that line of thinking. Any playerbase will adapt to the game's design, it's simply how people work. It's Square's system that allows, or more accurately promotes people to play in such a way

[Ryuko]

Or, you could just be the token WHM and never have to switch jobs, ever. =P (I quite enjoyed this perk, although I do have other jobs in case they are needed.)

In FFXI, I leveled plenty of jobs to help out the LS. The same is true in FFXIV. Because you can 'switch' jobs on the same character, it's sort of expected of you. I don't like that you can do it instantly while you are mid-dungeon. I feel like that takes away from the 'individuality' you have as a certain job... everyone's switching around constantly.

[whoopeeragon]

While I'm not agreeing with either side, I don't quite see that line of thinking. Any playerbase will adapt to the game's design, it's simply how people work. It's Square's system that allows, or more accurately promotes people to play in such a way

If that was the case, then why do I have experiences with different setups in parties? Just because BG won a fight using that particular set-up doesn't mean that it was SE 'promoting' that method. It seems that once someone adopts BG's method it becomes what SE wanted us to use, because I rarely see anyone go for different methods, even if they work.

It's true that the system INFLUENCES the players' playing style, but it merely influences - the final call is still the players. If they choose to discriminate against one job because they don't want to learn how to use that job in that content, that's not SE's fault but the players' fault. If they choose to follow someone else's strategy and not try and figure it out themselves, then blame SE for 'promoting' that method (which they have never done), then its their fault, not SE's.

No pain, no gain. People seem to want gain, but never want to experience pain. That's what I meant by the playerbase's fault. If the people you're with expect you to do 'this job' and not what you want, that's not SE's fault, but the people's.

[Wolfie]

If that was the case, then why do I have experiences with different setups in parties? Just because BG won a fight using that particular set-up doesn't mean that it was SE 'promoting' that method. It seems that once someone adopts BG's method it becomes what SE wanted us to use, because I rarely see anyone go for different methods, even if they work.

It's true that the system INFLUENCES the players' playing style, but it merely influences - the final call is still the players. If they choose to discriminate against one job because they don't want to learn how to use that job in that content, that's not SE's fault but the players' fault. If they choose to follow someone else's strategy and not try and figure it out themselves, then blame SE for 'promoting' that method (which they have never done), then its their fault, not SE's.

No pain, no gain. People seem to want gain, but never want to experience pain. That's what I meant by the playerbase's fault.

Every setup being viable does not mean that every setup will be used in equal proportions. If it's patently easier to do a boss fight by stacking some classes, then the huge majority of people will do that, and people who don't want to or can't provide for that style of play are left out.

[Hart]

I think the introduction of more job specific equipment would fix this problem. JSE that is hard to obtain and is top tier. Afterall, you would be hard pressed to have a party make someone with a relic switch to a job they don't want to play.

[JusticeReborn]

I really think the armory system is silly, especially being able to switch classes anywhere. Your class becomes a meaningless choice. Anyone can be anything anytime, so who or what you've grown yourself to be ends up being irrelevant. There's so many times where this comes into play.

1. People want you to swap to the job that is most effective for the situation, all the time; too bad if you want to play X, you're forced to play Y or be kicked. In FFXI I'm sure this happened too, but mid dungeon they're like "we're against coincounter? you can't play melee, swap to ranged now or we're kicking." This happened for many encounters. In other games such as FFXI it was like "I know that job you're playing isn't THE BEST for the situation, but I'm sure we'll get by." People also don't seem to understand that just because you have the class/job doesn't mean you want to play it and doesn't mean you are experienced/geared/skilled with it. I played WHM a lot and sometimes I was asked to go BLM and I said I probably wasn't going to be comfortable with it (lack of gear, didn't play it enough to feel safe on enmity, didn't want to take the risk) and people just didn't seem to understand why I wouldn't go BLM for them (and I was seen as rude).

2. It's not fun when you're like "oh check out my cool dragoon armor and lance" and the other guy goes "oh yeah" and just swaps to it too immediately. It ruins individuality, and gets rid of the ability to say "I AM A DRAGOON" (because technically you can be anything anytime). The class/job choice you make is meaningless, and you just don't have that good feeling about it. I understand people can swap jobs in FFXI too, but anyone can be anything anytime... I want to feel good about having Carbuncle walk around with me, and yet anyone can have him out with them with a push of a button.

3. A large portion of the reason everyone levels up every class/job is because it's so easy. Swap your weapon, gg good to go. It's difficult to feel accomplished saying like "I am a level 50 WHM" in your party. Not only does most of the party have that too, they'll be like "oh I can just switch to that." Sure, you can switch at your house or whatever in FFXI, but that was a LOT more effort to take for a lot of reasons (gotta have the gear which was harder to fully get, had to have the high level job which was harder, and had to spend a long time going back to who knows where to switch and come back). You were appreciated for playing that class, you had individuality, you felt good; in this game, who cares. If a party is 7/8 and just needs a WHM, instead of looking for that dedicated soul who actually is skilled and geared and loves the class, it's just "I'll just switch to WHM" *equip staff*. In worse situations, someone who loves their job (that dedicated dragoon guy) is forced to play WHM because the party is pressuring him to (they know he has WHM).

In FFXIV 2.0, I'm gonna want to main Summoner. But, what bums me out, is that EVERYONE is going to be leveling it at launch, even though a lot of people have zero interest in it. They're just doing it "because they can." Yeah I know a lot of people want to see the lower level content and don't have any other classes to experience it, but still... what's going to set me apart from the people that are just "summonerlols" and me, a serious dedicated person to the job? It should feel like a strong dedication and others should be like "wow, you got that far with summoner/you have that much gear/SOMETHING" rather than just *swap weapon* "yup I'm as good as you now."

I'm finding it difficult to articulate my point, but I hope you understand.

And I know I posted this in another thread, but I felt it was a slightly different topic and the content of the post deserved its own thread.

I anticipated exactly what you describe happening when I read about the Armory system. And, coming from FFXI end-game, where I loved to play Dragoon, but had made the mistake of leveling Black Mage to 75 first, I was always asked to come BLM to events, regardless of my interest or skill with it. Even when I switched to Warrior and obtained the Empyrean Weapon (Ukonvasara) for it, I was still rarely allowed to come Dragoon unless basically every role was already filled and they just needed another body/melee DPS.

So, what I've done in FFXIV is I have ONLY leveled Dragoon as a battle class. Sure, that means I won't get invited to every event, but at least I am playing my primary desired role. I determined for myself that my goal will be to make my Dragoon be the best it can possibly be -- that includes obtaining a relic (which hasn't happened yet) -- so that I establish myself and my identity in-game AS a Dragoon.

I know there are players that just leveled everything to 50 because they could, and then they end up in the scenarios you described. Sure, there's a whole lot of versatility, being able to adapt to any role at any time -- and one day, I'll get there, too. But first, I want to excel at my own personal preference.


On a sidenote, I may level Archer when 2.0 comes out, since I won't need to purchase ammo and I have no interest in Summoner. But I don't really want to be a Bard, so we'll see.

Sidenote 2: Once I hit 50 Dragoon in FFXIV, I started leveling Crafting classes. I'd like all of THEM to be 50, so I can repair/meld/create virtually anything. I personally feel having all crafts at 50 and one primary battle class would make me far more valuable (and my own brand of unique) to a Linkshell that someone that can just be anything anytime.

Jack of all trades, master of none!
(except you who have all relics and darklight gear already)