Will Relics create the same problems that they did in FFXI?

[Madruk]

Dealing with what this thread has devolved into instead of the OP:

Basically the problem is Elitists have to grasp at straws to feel entitled to content in this game because there really isn't that much in-game that is so time consuming it doesn't boost their ego or make them feel better than everyone else for obtaining it. It's the problems the Elitists are going to have to deal with, SE has ALWAYS stated that FFXIV is more designed for casual gamers. TA is gone, Relics are 'too easy'; maybe these Elitists need to learn how to play a GAME without having to feel they are entitled to content they need to help their self-esteem or egos IRL by looking down on other players who haven't met the same in-game obligations, but still pay the same subscriptions...

its like ppl saying they wish things were back to where u had to walk uphill both ways while snowing in 100 degree weather with no shoes to get to the letter carrier to send a letter someone would receive a month later... instead of sending a text

Make a game too easy and even the "I'm entitled to everything because I pay for it" crowd will lose interest and leave. The past ten years of MMO history has proven this over and over (looking past the fact most were unfinished, just like this game was).

[fusional]

Basically the problem is Elitists have to grasp at straws to feel entitled to content in this game because there really isn't that much in-game that is so time consuming it doesn't boost their ego or make them feel better than everyone else for obtaining it. It's the problems the Elitists are going to have to deal with, SE has ALWAYS stated that FFXIV is more designed for casual gamers.

you're projecting. really, really hard. so hard i'm afraid you may burst a vessel.

and do quote where SE has said what you claim they said. if they've always said it, this should be an easy task.

can i predict the future really quickly? you won't. but moving on-

TA is gone

wrong. TA as a required condition for loot is gone. TA remains alive and well in the form of leaderboards which will show the best clear times per server (perhaps also across all servers).

Relics are 'too easy'; maybe these Elitists need to learn how to play a GAME

if we find relic too easy to obtain, it would appear we've learned how to play the game quite well.

...without having to feel they are entitled to content

you're projecting again. you should really relax with that. crying your eyes out about how content should be easier so it will cater to YOU, as a more casual player, when yoshi and devs have commented several times about relic being designed more with the hardcore base in mind- smacks of entitlement. trying to pass it off to the hardcores while flipping the script just makes you look desperately delusional.

hardcores have no disillusions about who they are, what they are, what is theirs and what isn't. do we cry about av/cc difficulty? no. do we cry about skirmish difficulty? no. do we cry about quest difficulty? no. do we cry about storyline difficulty? no. do we cry about leve/faction leve difficulty? no. do we cry about primal difficulty? no.

because none of that is designed with us primarily in mind, and we understand that.

but then yoshi and the devs threw us a bone. we got relic quest, ifrit extreme and rivenroad hard. they were sufficiently challenging in the short term, and while we were generally pleased with what the team was able to deliver with such a broken engine- in the end we lamented that the difficulty was either gimmicky (latency) or simply passing (rivenroad), and that maybe relic quest was a touch short.

twist it however you like, but that's reality.

but how about the casuals? well, i give you general forum. take your pick of entitled bitching and moaning threads about wanting every last thing in the game to cater more to their gaming preferences without leaving anything at all to their hardcore counterparts. ifrit extreme? impossible. rivenroad hard? nearly impossible. relic quest? way too long, way too expensive, way too dependent on RNG, and speed runs are a sin against god himself. hamlet seals? impossible. hell, even garuda... which is 100% casual-friendly leaning on the side of difficulty to give them access to a challenge- next to impossible.

and apparently all this is supposed to change based on what they want. that's apparently not entitlement, but if the hardcores ask for even ONE SINGLE THING regarding content yoshi and devs already said is for them- apparently it's they who are entitled. apparently.

except not.

speaking for myself- i don't look down on you because you haven't had the same progress as me in game. what you do with your time is your own business and progress is progress. an accomplishment is an accomplishment. beat garuda recently? good for you. just beat rivenroad hard days before final save? awesome, congrats.

no, you conjure a wonderful straw man but it simply isn't the case. i look down on you because *you* are an entitled crying wanker and *you* have the audacity to then project this onto others. it's truly pathetic.

get over yourself. we do pay the same subscription but the only person i see here asking for handouts, asking for just as much and all of the same without equal effort, asking for things to *only be* the way *they* want it to be and *not* to cater to *anyone else* is YOU. only YOU. THAT is entitlement. THAT is ego.

so it would appear in the end it's *you* thinking you're better than others, *you* trying to assuage your own fragile self-esteem... and your method of doing this is to take everything wrong with yourself and blame it on anyone else.

i get that we're playing a game built on fantasy, but it seems like you've constructed a fantastic new reality of your very own.

[TheFatHousecat]

;>

[Chardrizard]

an entitled crying wanker. it's truly pathetic.

get over yourself.

/slowclap...

[GreyJorildyn]

That elitist-attacking post pretty much came out of nowhere lol. Thanks for fixing the problem fusional!

[Almalexia]

I fail to see your point. It's still an incredibly lazy rehash that artificially increases the difficulty instead of doing something creative with the fight...on top of virtually being the oldest primal battle in the game dug up from the grave. For the finale of the quest to create a relic weapon, it's pathetic no matter how many nails and eruptions spawn. The faction quests are more interesting than that.

I thought it was legitimately challenging, exhilarating and a worthy component of the relic quest.

But then I actually did the content a great many times. Where did your opinion come from?

[Dzian]

Personally I'm fairly middle ground. Not a hard core player. Most definitely not the type to rota events. Monday 7pm event 1, Tuesday 7pm event 2 and so forth. On an adlib basis it's fine, Who's around Monday if there's enough let's do event 1. But I personally draw the line where it becomes every week like clockwork. Anyway all of that isn't to relevent but you can use it to judge if I'm a casual or hardcore somewhere in the middle type player.

I do think though that all content should be designed in a way that makes it accessible to everyone. Whether you play 1 hour a day or 10. This doesn't mean make it easy (easy is boring.) By all means make stuff hard. But being hard doesn't mean innaccessible.

I suppose by way of example I could say Crystal Tower or whatever it is. Give that place 100 floors or something huge like that but design it in such a way that it may take your more casual group of gamers 2-3 days to clear a floor playing for a hour or 2 a day. If they make it to the next floor progress is saved so next time they go in they can begin on that floor. In that end you can slowly climb to the top even being the most casual of players it may take you a year but it's doable and accessible.

For the more hardcore though they could find themselves going up 5-6 even more floors a week and could find themselves at the top floor mega boss in a couple of months. Admittedly I've just remembered Nyzul Isle but I'm thinking something a lot harder than trying to clear 5 floors in 30 minutes.

Point really is that making every piece of content available to every player doesn't in any way mean it has to be easy. Like above if I pull my party together and go in to Crystal Tower. Even if we only manage to get up one floor that night it's saved and next time we go in we can start on that floor. It may be difficult but it's also accessible.

I think thats the key. Having a piece of content that takes 5 or 6 hours of your day makes it inaccessible to most not in any part due to difficulty but simply due to time constraints. I'm all for hard content and long as the difficulty is in actually clearing it and not how many hours are in my day.

[Nero]

i think thats the key. having a piece of content that takes 5 or 6 hours of your day makes it inaccessible to most not in any part due to difficulty but simply due to time constraints.

What kind of Content requires 5-6 Hours in FFXIV a day? To make it even easier, which Content even requires 2 hours a day in FFXVI? No Content/Instance in FFXIV is forcing you to stay even 2 hours in the Game.

[Dzian]

What kind of Content requires 5-6 Hours in FFXIV a day? To make it even easier, which Content even requires 2 hours a day in FFXVI? No Content/Instance in FFXIV is forcing you to stay even 2 hours in the Game.

True enough, yet to make any form of progress in content you often have (technically "had" now) to spam it several times. Thus you do (did) infact end up spending several hours in one piece of content. Wasn't to often you'd see a shout for anything, be it primal hamlet or dungeon where a group was formed to only go once. Hamlet especially. I don't think anyone would take time to provision and only do one hamlet that day...

My point was regarding regarding difficulty more than time. It seems "hard core" players want content designed for them to be difficult. That's really cool. However that difficulty should be in clearing the content and not the amount of hours you have to play. If structured right that difficult content can be accessible to everyone not just the hard core. I'm not particulalry "hard core" but i love difficulty. Easy is dull and boring.

[Rokien]

You don't see a problem with I got this weapon it might of taken me 2 months to get and some work but now I am set for the rest of this MMOs lifespan?

To me in FFXI it was very boring how they never came out with better weapons to get after relics until abyssea.

Ya, but in ffxi it took at least a good year to get if not more, not a month worth of grinding.

You were also looked up to. You saw a person with relic or anything rare of the sorts. You were like "Wow, this guy is sooo cool! My hero!" this game it's like, oh cool... I don't get the same reaction as I would seeing a normal relic in FFXI. Because very few people had em.

This game is soo casual, makes me puke. I want stuff in game that I will never get, just like relics in FFXI. I want stuff that only one or two people will have with a years worth of time.

That is lasting content. That's why FFXI today is still better than all these other failing mmos, FFXI is STILL holding a good subscription base even with abyssea.