Coincounter

[Judge_Xero]

I've noticed this a lot as well. I've been lucky and usually only see one, maybe two, Animal Instinct(s) per run (knock on wood), usually just before or just after 50% hp. It would make a ton of sense though if Judge was correct and it was triggered by too much hate above rest of the party or even the difference between tank and lowest enmity generating player.

I'm going to try to take it easy, and/or just use Warrior for the more damage/less enmity aspect to see if it makes a difference. We had a member running with us that has done this run a lot, and he was so confused. He's like..."I've done this a ton of times, and he never uses Animal Instinct this early, or this much."

[Sounsyy]

You may be on to something. When we do AV with a warrior tank, coincounter almost always does his first and only Animal Instinct after 50%. Usually 30-40% hp. But when I tank as paladin, I almost always see the first animal instinct before the 50% mark - 55-60% hp, and sometimes he'll pop it again in this instance.

[Brannigan]

Coincounter's moves are probably just random. You can go crazy on hate and never see an AI and you can see them three times in a row.

OP, what his moves are and how to avoid them have mostly been covered. The real key to dodging attacks for coincounter is to basically take turns with him. Coincounter's attack delay is just long enough to get like 1.5 weaponskill animations off. You can still escape if you fire off two, but you'll need to be holding a direction already. You want to react to your combat log and pace your combos. For example, like 30 seconds into the fight with Aegis Boon down:

He does an autoattack->You do fast blade and wait
He does an autoattack->You flat blade and wait
He does 10-tonze-> Flash+Provoke (You almost always have time to do these together)
He does 100-tonze swipe->get behind him and riot blade while moving back to the front

You don't always have to do this, though. Right at the beginning of the fight he's less likely to use 100-tonze moves, so you can go a little nuts. Also if you have Aegis Boon ready you're always safe from one WS as long as you're facing him. Remember to watch his debuffs also since bards will occasionally stun with their combos (you can shield bash also) and give you free attacks.

Also he will always Eye of the Beholder or 100-tonze swing immediately after an animal instinct. The tank should hold his fire as well until you confirm which of the two he's doing. If he's charging Eye, go crazy on hate to make sure he doesn't move afterward. For a 100-tonze, get out of range and go crazy on hate once he falls down.

Remember that you don't have to be like 10000 points over the 2nd on the hate list. You just have to be 1.

[Judge_Xero]

You may be on to something. When we do AV with a warrior tank, coincounter almost always does his first and only Animal Instinct after 50%. Usually 30-40% hp. But when I tank as paladin, I almost always see the first animal instinct before the 50% mark - 55-60% hp, and sometimes he'll pop it again in this instance.

Interesting. I hope it's not just bad luck. But yeah, regularly having him Animal Instinct with only 10-20% health gone gets pretty annoying. Will be doing some more AV tonight, to see.

[Judge_Xero]

It doesn't prove anything. But I did the coincounter fight as Warrior, and kept my hate close to the next highest person yellow/red. Coincounter only used Animal Instinct around 25%, which made the fight much easier.

So....who knows.

[Thunderz]

Get more hp!

Go with Warrior!

Around above 4500hp and you shouldn't get one shot by 100T

5k Hp if you can

at that point fight is easy

[Alerith]

Personally, I maintain enmity purely off of Fast/Flat and Flash. I save provoke exclusively for Animal Instinct. If you're good, you'll get back flashing red, and if you're really good, you can Stun Eye of the Beholder with Shield Bash which will likely be his next move after Animal Instinct.

A word of caution though: While he favors Eye of the Beholder after Animal Instinct, it is entirely possible for him to use 100 Tonz Swing instead, at which point you either need to have stunned him with Shield Bash, eat the attack with Aegis Boon or Sentinel, or run like hell.

[Brannigan]

Personally, I maintain enmity purely off of Fast/Flat and Flash. I save provoke exclusively for Animal Instinct. If you're good, you'll get back flashing red, and if you're really good, you can Stun Eye of the Beholder with Shield Bash which will likely be his next move after Animal Instinct.

Yeah I forgot about this. Don't use your Provoke past the first one. You don't need it. Save that for Animal Instinct. Personally I like to pause to confirm EotB on every AI, but if you have Aegis ready you can just block him if he 100 tonzes. I usually run CC on Warrior (but with like 3900 hp in dd/enm gear) so I am in the habit of dodging everything anyway.

Also Warrior gets a single get out of jail free card with Vengeance. FF/Foresight aren't 100% (don't risk a party wipe and speedrun loss on chance moves). Sentinel will usually mitigate enough also but there's no reason to risk that either.

Also there's no reason to stun Eye of the Beholder ever. The ranged classes shouldn't ever get hit by it.

[Catapult]

There's a way you can setup your log to help anticipate his moves making it easier to identify and avoid them. If you don't know how to setup your chatlog here's a guide I did a while back how to set it up called Prepping yourself for Primals. (Should be able to access it w/o forum access, but please let me know if the link doesn't work and I'll copy/paste it for you).

The BIG thing to be aware of is his behavior changes mid-fight, but his TP move frequency is predictable if you learn to anticipate it.

The first 50% his TP moves are drawn out about after every 3-5 Auto Attacks the exception being when he uses Animal Instinct, which he always follows up with Eye of the Beholder or 100-Tonze Swing.

Post 50% when the slugs pop CC will start using moves almost back to back, during this phase it's actually better to stop what your doing and watch his movements. Wait for him to do the weaker TP moves, and strike with one or two WS/JA's then wait to see what he does next (don't worry about your combo timer running out you'll have plenty of time after his next TP move), it's very important you do this because it can make a world of difference on being to avoid 100-Tonze Swing/Swipe/Whatever. The mages will have to control their hate of course post 50%, but in this case it really is better safe than sorry if they can't take him out in less than a minute or two.

In the off-chance you do get stuck in animation lock when he starts 100-Tonze Swing, don't move you're going to get hit by it (You really do need every second to get out of range), instead fire off any of your mitigation moves like Aegis Boon, Divine Veil, Sentinel, or Hallowed Ground and if all of those happen to be down Shield Bash and hope you get lucky Stunning him or Blocking the move.

It might also be beneficial to save Flash/Voke post 50% as well, though uncommon he is not unknown to spam lots of Animal Instincts in a row, and there's nothing worse than him doing it right after you used all your hate abilities. Just remember he follows up with Eye of the Beholder or 100-Tonze Swing so your party needs to pay attention, especially if he makes a run for the mages right after.




I've theorized this too, but unfortunately I haven't found a solid method for predicting AI. Though we've been doing alot of AV speedruns lately for relic, and judging from his patterns it seems like the game just picks one move randomly and he'll spam it at a much greater frequency than others. Like one run he'll do tons of AI, others he'll do tons of 100 Tonze Swings or Swipes, etc.

This is probably the most comprehensive and helpful description of the fight I've seen. Thank you.

And also thanks to everyone else. You've given me some useful tools to work with.

[Kitfox]

Get more hp!

Go with Warrior!

Around above 4500hp and you shouldn't get one shot by 100T

5k Hp if you can

at that point fight is easy

This is how I've seen a tank regularly do this, stack ~4700 HP on WAR and just take the swing to the face. No idea if it's the most efficient strategy but seems to work nonetheless.