Realm Reborn = downgrade?

[Nemy]

In the video shown at Gamescom 2012 (that one can easily also find on Youtube), you can clearly see that the animation of the characters is seriously severed.

Some of the main aspects of the running animation are completely gone.

-The leaning left or right of the characters as they're strafing / changing direction is gone.

-The animation of the characters as they stop running (that extra step to define the stop) is also completely gone. The characters just stop moving their legs, and that's it.

-Generally inertia is gone, and it looks like a downgraded version of what we currently have and/or a generic animation from any other game of this genre.

UPDATE : It also looks like the character is forced to backpedal instead of running backwards, without having its camera locked to a target. (someone in the thread mentioned it, and now it seems to be confirmed)

CASE IN POINT (from the FINAL FANTASY XIV Special Talk Session)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_737h...ilpage#t=2280s

UPDATE : Seems like the downgrade was intended after all, so i'm currently asking if there's any way of improving the 2.0 animation, to be less of a downgrade, and why you had to also remove the current animations for passive mode?

While the animations were nice, the development team's number one focus in A Realm Reborn is on gameplay so even though they were nice animations, the team made the decision to remove them.

SUGGESTION : If there is no other solution.., Keep the current animation for passive mode, and remove them for active mode.


JUST WANT TO POINT OUT

...something that i have discovered : They already have done all the work to implement *at least* jumping, to what looks like the current animation of 1.0 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-TMl...tailpage#t=34s

Notice the smooth transition from stationary to running state on the human model. This should be the 1.0 animation, and it allows jumping. (awesome work by the way)

Just quoting a similar thread that i have discovered since we have the same concern :

While the new casting and spell animations in the trailer looked great, is anyone else disappointed by the overall animation changes? One of my favorite things about XIV were the realistic and grounded character animations. You moved and stopped with momentum, characters would turn and face things properly, and it all felt really good. The gameplay videos look as if they've thrown all of that way and replaced it with a standard MMO movement system (With the typical, really awkward back pedaling motion) and everything looks choppy and weightless

Perhaps it's simply alpha footage, but I have a feeling this was an intended design change

A POST-CONFIRMATION SUMMARY OF THOUGHTS (Will add quotes for the opposite view shorty.)

While many of you here are arguing about whether the animation and gameplay affect each other in any meaningful way, I'm left wondering one simple question:

Why is it that ArenaNet has no problem coding Guild Wars 2 avatars with fluid stop/land animations while still maintaining lag-free gameplay? Here's your example. Also notice that, at about 5 minutes in, even in battle there is still somewhat of a foot positioning animation of about 1-2 seconds. Doesn't affect gameplay at all. Explain that SE.

Basically, if GW2 can do it, why the $%@# can't FFXIV?! SE needs to look at GW2 and stop looking at WoW for this and many other reasons.

Though I take issue with how Nemy presents her arguments here and there, I find I have to agree with her more and more. The movements of our characters are real and it makes them feel alive. Get rid of the start/stop animations? Not ideal, but fine. But what possible reason is there for removing our current running animation? The motion capture already existed, and the new engine is more powerful than Crystal Tools. It should be able to support the old, no?

I think what this thread really boils down to is an argument between people who feel a real connection with their characters which is supported and augmented by the realistic motions they perform while moving, and those people who couldn't care less about any of that stuff and just want a game.

In the case of the latter, that's exactly how GW2 is. There's no soul to the game or to your character. It's just a game. You aren't having a grand adventure, you're just controlling a puppet on screen. In Final Fantasy, every little thing, from the subtle movements while standing, the way we lean a bit when running, the really sudden stop we make when changing direction suddenly, and even to how the camera is positioned, all add up to let the player transport themselves into the character on screen and to inhabit that character. This isn't about roleplay, mind you. I don't even know what it's called, but I'm sure empathy comes into it.

All of this is important.

I think the issue is being lost here. The current issue isn't that "clunky controls are RUINING gameplay!" or that "backpedaling is bad!", it's that, based on what we've seen from the gameplay vids, the current movement animations are bad enough that people who play Elder Scrolls/Fallout 3/most Gamebryo games would blush. On first seeing the movements I chuckled and said to myself, "Luminous is the Gamebryo engine! Good thing this is pre-alpha."

A more realistic running animation without start/stop animations does nothing to gameplay. I can fully understand lowering the quality of the animations to better suit a faster-paced game, but c'mon. The current animations in all the videos we've seen so far are just plain bad. There are no redeeming qualities to them. Surely there's a way to mix fastpaced gameplay with better quality movement animations? I can't see why they said, "We need this game to move fast. Let's throw all of the animations in the bin."

I'm finding it hard to not be let down by this information. You say their number one focus is gameplay, but that certainly doesn't limit their focus elsewhere, as we've clearly seen from the talk session. So was the decision to remove these animations temporary; resources were needed for a timely release and they'll likely be added back later? Or was it a more permanent deal with the engine swap and something they're not looking to use at all in the future? Or could they re-tool more detailed animations from scratch further down the road?

These are our characters, not automatons. During the early days, the attention to detail was one of the only things that gave FFXIV a presence. To say "sacrifices must be made somewhere" isn't only insulting to the animation team, it's a slap to the players that were hooked by the (I don't want to say "little things" because I feel it's more important than a lot of folks believe) level of craftsmanship that went into those certain areas.

This stinks of XI's "PS2 limitations" all over again. Options - we need them. Give me some kind of hope.

Character movement in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM6bi4RP25o
just looks very stiff and unrealistic.. and yes, awkward. (Watch specifically at 0:26 - 0:29, he's kind of slide-walking sideways and backwards). I really really hope this is not what it's going to look like in 2.0. They have to improve this, right? >.>

I was really looking forward to 2.0, but honestly, for me my CHARACTER is the most important thing in game for me, (second being storyline, and third how the world looks.)
If something isn't right about my character, how they move, look, feel.. I just don't play the game. It's as simple as that.
This is actually a game-breaking thing to me. It looks really bad. I'm disappointed and worried.
I will be really sad to see my characters ruined if it's not fixed.

The backpedaling, sideways-walking, and slide-walking is such an eye-sore.

I would gladly wait an extra month (hell, or two) to play the game if they would make character movement look as nice as it does in the current game.

It was the one thing going for it, now it will be painfully hard for XIV to stand out when it's just a prettier generic MMORPG lol. Why choose XIV when you can choose a vast library of 120+ MMORPGs from 1996 - 2011 and get the same gameplay?

What a sad day. Animations in XIV was what set it apart from other MMO's. I loved how much emphasis was put on movement and you FELT like your character was actually doing something.

I don't post much (nothing to contribute that hasn't already been said, nothing nice to say, etc., etc.), so I try to make these as meaningful as possible. And this time around, I'm inclined to agree with Gramul.

I don't play many modern games; I have a generally low budget for video games, so subscription MMO's are usually where I go. Spent way too much time with FFXI. So, to me, this kind of animation blew my friggin' mind when I finally sallied forth to FFXIV. I adored how my little Jivu character actually started moving, stopped moving, and changed direction before moving when I pushed her in a direction she wasn't facing.

Adored it. And now it's gone.

The game won't feel real anymore. I'm not whining about immersion. My character is no longer believable. If I run down the street, I don't start out running at my maximum velocity. I shouldn't look like that, either. They went to great lengths to make 2.0 look drastically different from the current version. So far, all I've seen is just prettier graphics on the same ol' same ol'. (Whinewhinewhineit'snotoutyet, but that male miqote PLD used Spirits Within and I cringed when it looked exactly the same.)

Mechanics are one thing. If the only thing they fixed was the gathering/crafting systems and the item movement UI, I'd laud this as a great success.

I'm also tired of excuses from this company; you should be fixing the broken game and adding new content to make the game better. Don't take out what was good about it. If I, a person, like mentioned, who can shell out a bit more money to upgrade my hardware to play this game, I think most of their playerbase can too. Scary stop motion.

One step forward and two steps in a bilateral corkscrew, I guess. So while I took a roundabout way of getting here, and in that I usually giggle at Rokien threads, I will sign.


--Jivu Wolfasura on Hyperion (Wolfandre)

THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT

Arguing that yeah it would be good to add these animations , but they can't add them because they don't have the time to do them the right way so it won't interfere with the gameplay .
Square wants money , they rules over the devs , the devs are forced to make that kind of choice and they prefered to have smooth gameplay over good animation .

Yes, YOU could play any other MMO on the market. The animations were one unique thing FFXIV had, among other things. Trust me, if you want them to develop more interesting encounters beyond Tank and Spank (which I hope you would), then they need to make sure the gameplay isn't hamstringed by trying to capture minor animations. And yes, this is assuming you want to do more than solo quests and run around camps for hours on end. Any successful MMO has had a focus on gameplay over graphics, and those MMO's can do incredibly complex encounters due to quick player and server responsiveness.

I keep bringing this back to gameplay, because the dev's have stated it's a gameplay/graphics conflict. Someone here replied to me stating that "Not every fight is like Ifrit". I would counter that any fight worth it's salt requires quick repositioning and avoiding certain attacks/environmental damage.

I want to play 2.0 more than anything for the story... because 1.0's main story was decent for what was given but it left it at a cliffhanger and so many cliffhangers leaving me go "wtf? that was the amazing story given to us?" Seriously by the end I didn't have a clear understanding on direction or who our true enemy was in it, at cap just a "we almost got killed by this darth vader guy, but uhhhh what do you mean this was a close of a chapter in my characters life? I wanted to know what happened in Grid after forced to leave to Uldah. I am easily adaptable, what gets me in a FF mmo is the story and the ingame community. Because we all kind of get to know each other and have fun. Its what kept me going with FF mmo's the longest to other mmo's! So again I wouldn't mind it added but it is on low end of my prioritys to make me love xiv or arr.

As long as these types of animations have NOTHING to do with combat or gameplay, it's okay for it to be implemented. But seeing as there's no animation lock for 2.0, having the movement animations of 1.0 WOULD affect gameplay. I'm trusting the devs on this one because they honestly seem like they know what they're doing and they're being vastly underappreciated for the amount of dedicated work they have put into this game. It's like you guys are wanting another 1.0 failure. You can throw as many realism arguments around as you like, but you need to realise the people who would rather settle on 'realistic' movements and aesthetics over core gameplay are in the minority and are being ignorant at the fact this is not how MMO's work. The rest of us actually want fluid movements and combat, because that's the main importance in an MMO over graphics and animations. I don't mean to sound disrespectful because I can see why people would want the animations back, but they just don't fly well in an MMORPG.

[Xmbei]

In the video shown at Gamescom 2012 (that one can easily also find on Youtube), you can clearly see that the animation of the characters is seriously severed.

2 of the main aspects of the running animation are completely gone.

1. The leaning left or right of the characters as they're strafing / changing direction is gone.

2. The animation of the characters as they stop running (that extra step to define the stop) is also completely gone. The characters just stop moving their legs, and that's it.

Please don't tell me that 2 of the most important things that made the animation in FFXIV so good compared to other mmo's are gone for the sake of jumping.

pre-alpha game play... nuff said.

[Nemy]

I really hope you're right, although a confirmation would be nice.

I wouldn't be surprised if they had to re-work the whole running animation to include jumping, and that's what we're going to see on retail though.

Disappointed yes, surprised, not so much.

[Mijin]

pre-alpha game play... nuff said.

Everyone's excuse for everything someone says negative about 2.0.

It's really a silly argument considering the games pretty much done already and they are stating testing in like a few weeks.

2. The animation of the characters as they stop running (that extra step to define the stop) is also completely gone. The characters just stop moving their legs, and that's it.

This is actually a good this in my opinion. Faster response from your character is great for a couple reasons, like casting for example.

[Xmbei]

Everyone's excuse for everything someone says negative about 2.0.

It's really a silly argument considering the games pretty much done already and they are stating testing in like a few weeks.

Really like FFXIV 1.0 was pretty much done before going into alpha and beta? right..... Statement is a legitimate reason. Until actually play testing starts and we see how it plays and find bugs or actually game mechanics that are irksome to us, we can not say a video pre optimization (which usually comes post/during beta to pre-release). Also an MMO is never "pretty much done"..... ever.... if it was they would not need patches or updates or expansions. (yes a lame-duck statement) but you can't say mine is ridiculous statement when yours is just as bad.

[HiirNoivl]

Battle is going to be more dynamic, meaning you do more stuff, meaning, you spend more time fighting than running around. So This is a non-issue.

Also, considering the fact that it's pre-alpha, you can join Alpha testing and see for yourself how much you care about having a "stop-motion" and "leaning".

[Nemy]

Non-issue?

I bet you anything that no matter how much you fight, you're still going to watch your character running x 10 the time you actually fight, in any mmo.

I really value the current animation, and to see them downgrade it would be a shame.

[OranKells]

there be trolls a foot!

[Astrix]

to troll not to troll?

[HiirNoivl]

to troll not to troll?

This is like another grass post, but somehow less entertaining. It depends on how bored you are.

Non-issue?

Non-issue.