PLD Gear?

[Molly_Millions]

i respect your opinion on this matter except the part where two of you calling people nolifers for beating a content takes 17min to do.

It might take 17 mins if you've spent the time to memorize every aspect of the dungeon. I guarantee nobody has ever walked into AV on their first try with party members who are no more familiar with it than knowing where the af is, and complete a 17 min speed run. Anyone who's done a 17 min run has had plenty of practice on it first, or went in there with 7 other people who have. I, and the people I usually play with have not spent the time learning that dungeon. Now, you can continue calling a lack of experience a lack of ability, but two are definitely not the same.

[Molly_Millions]

There is a lot of great information on a lot of these posts. Especially the DEF testing (amazing).
It's also a great example of how people interpret a perfectly laid out set of data and testing (seems that some people still don't get it), and also shows the various ways people play PLD.

This is true. Some people are just too damn ignorant to see the value in the conversation stemming from my wrongness. (here's looking at you STFU) But hey, a post is only valuable when it agrees with our own viewpoint, isn't it?


Numbers and test results really hold no value if we don't have a discussion of how they should be applied.

[Stufoo]

On trash mobs, you would be better to stack Dex (Block Rate) and wear a high Block Rate Shield.
It would be better to block 36% of damage 87% of the time, than 50% of damage 42% of the time.

(Divine Veil @ 100% Block Rate + 75% Block Rate VS. Divine Veil @ 100% Block Rate + 30% Block Rate)

Hey Judge, just wanted to clarify on this and how strange your block rate difference estimates are. The logic is sound if there weren't abilities such as sentinel, divine veil, and other mitigators that completely trump the incentive to mitigate trash pulls in the first place. Like, of course you want to block more, but the difference isn't large enough to care. The logic just doesn't fit into the game's situations, but for clarification, you can't make this large of an improvement on block rate in the game at all.

For a Holy Shield 110 block rate + standard HDL 206 dex build to have a 30% block rate, the floor for that monster would have to be -12.6%. I don't think this is likely to happen on "trash monsters" but I have no idea, let's roll with it.

Floor + (Block Rate x (.2)) + (DEX x (.1)) = block rate ≤ 75%

so

30% - (110x(.2)) - (206x(.1)) = -12.6% floor

Likewise, considering you were talking about the same scenario when comparing (trash monsters, standard vs. high block rate + dex stack), let's see how much you'd need to reach 75% standard block rate on a -12.6% floor.

The increase from -12.6% to 75% is 87.6%, so you'd need around 438 block rate, or 876 dex, or some combination of the two. As you can see the numbers for this increase are just unreachable in any sense. Realistically, you could have... 196 maximum possible block rate from gear and traits. You'd still need 484 dex total.

I want to put up the math for the block power differences too, but it's pretty safe to say that to gain that 45% block rate, you'd be giving up 43~45% mitigation in block as well in the shield alone, not 14% as in your example. So basically, there's a reason we use Kite and Tower shields. Our abilities override the need for block rate. Nothing overrides the need for block power.

A more reasonable comparison would be Holy shield 110 vs. Gridanian Buckler 178. In the above example, simple switching to the gridanian buckler alone would net you a +13.6% increase in block rate (30->43.6). However, you are trading +13.6% block rate for -13.4% mitigation (Holy shield +27.6% -> Gridanian Buckler +14.2%). Numbers like these are just too small to care about for trash monsters in the game's current scenarios and ability design (divine veil).

Comparing individual things like HDL gauntlets vs. Sentinel's Gauntlets shows a clear winner (12 VIT = 6 Block Power = 1.2% mitigation vs. 5 Block Rate = 1.0% block rate), then when you meld DEX onto the sentinel's gauntlets you are just trading block rate for defense, and non-mitigation stats like HP, Enmity, and Mind, for very, very little gain.

[Molly_Millions]

You've seriously filled up 3-4 pages arguing over 20vit vs. 20def. Really?

While the tone of the discussion leaves a lot to be desired, what's being discussed holds value. If I'm going to invest boatloads of gil and time to get a nice triple melded (or more) chest piece, I want to ensure I'm spending my gil in the most efficient way possible.

I can post my theory of what I think is best, and if I'm wrong somebody that has a better handle on the math involved and the testing methods used can correct it and tell me why. The problem is the trolls that try to derail the otherwise valuable conversation by tossing epithets and otherwise fouling up the thread with negativity.


That being said, I have a few questions for you all, since you've changed my mind on DEF. Is there a cap to VIT in terms of it's effect on DEF, m.DEF, and enhancing magic potency? If not, would you just stack VIT only on a triple melded cobalt cuirass for PLD? Or would you stack VIT to a certain point, then add something else? If there is a cap, what would an ideal triple melded cobalt cuirass have on it, if I were to use a tier II, a tier III and a tier IV materia for my meld?

[Stufoo]

I can post my theory of what I think is best. The problem is the trolls that try to derail the otherwise valuable conversation by tossing epithets and otherwise fouling up the thread with negativity.

Don't put VIT on a chest piece for PLD, DEF is vastly more beneficial.

Yeah, probably shouldn't go and attack my constructive posts when the entirety of your post consists of things you don't know about then. You didn't say "In my theories I think DEF is more beneficial than VIT, here's why". You said "DEF is vastly more beneficial, don't put VIT on a chest piece for PLD". That's wrong. You can't complain about anything because you deserve it.

That being said, I have a few questions for you all, since you've changed my mind on DEF. Is there a cap to VIT in terms of it's effect on DEF, m.DEF, and enhancing magic potency?

No cap, if there is, it is unreachable. There is a damage floor though, but this is not the same thing as a VIT or DEF cap as it is relative. There is a cap on enhancing magic potency's benefit to each spell, but those are too high to worry about as well, and admittedly the very worst reason to use vitality in the first place. Block Power is the far more beneficial gain from VIT. There's a cap on block power mitigation too, 75%, but that's unattainable on bosses too.

Basically get as much VIT as possible, but don't go overboard because you'll replace it with heavy darklight's more varied benefits or a differently focused body piece anyway.

[SwordCoheir]

The increase from -12.6% to 75% is 87.6%, so you'd need around 438 block rate, or 876 dex, or some combination of the two. As you can see the numbers for this increase are just unreachable in any sense. Realistically, you could have... 196 maximum possible block rate from gear and traits. You'd still need 484 dex total.

Aye that's a good assertion, don't forget that the bonus from block rate from the +block gear caps out at 20% though.

[Molly_Millions]

Yeah, probably shouldn't go and attack my constructive posts...

I attacked you because the first two words from your in this thread were "stop posting" and because you called me stupid.

When you want to hold a conversation with somebody it's best not to attack/belittle them right off the bat.

[Molly_Millions]

Basically get as much VIT as possible, but don't go overboard because you'll replace it with heavy darklight's more varied benefits or a differently focused body piece anyway.

IMO you can't recommend DL or HDL gear, because it can't be bought and the drop rate is atrocious. Not everyone has the time to dedicate to farming DL or HDL. For most of us that gear is something we'll get if we're lucky, it's not an inevitability. It might be, if we all had 18 hours a day to dedicate to farming it, but that's not the case. Until something changes with the drop rate, any discussion about gear, is a conversation about how to gear your char sans DL and HDL.

[Chadwick]

yall r gonna get in trouble!

[Judge_Xero]

Hey Judge, just wanted to clarify on this and how strange your block rate difference estimates are....

I agree that my block rate estimates were a bit high @ 75%

A better comparison (in my case) would be like:
Max 60% Block rate on lvl 52 Mobs, with a Block Value of around 35% (Gridanian Buckler)(Garuda's Gaze)(300 Dex)
Max 32% Block rate on lvl 52 Mobs, with a Block Value of around 55% (Holy Shield)(350 VIT)

Nothing overrides the need for block power.

This is correct. So for anything important, you will be better off with Block, since your Sentinel or Divine Veil willl be off cooldown.

With the limited gains on Block Rate and Block. It almost seems like it's useless to add it anywhere you could put accuracy, damage or enmity.

Edit: Sweet. In before thread lock.