New 50 Maelstrom Dragoon seeking Gear/Materia advice

[Gael]

Tachi Koma also tested the Garuda's Beak and foud a cap at 358 STR / 315 PIE...

[Silvano]

Funny that in the link you posted those are clearly for ifrit weapons, since is based on the tests both seiken and kaeko did, can you provide the raw data your friends/testers confirming all those caps for the different weapons?

Also with my gear and food i get 369 str and 314 pie and when i passed from garudas beak to gae bolg i didnt really see that much of a difference on ws dmg, as your caps suggest i should have, except for crits.
oh and if i use paragons crowns over DL eyepatch i get 379 str and 324 pie, from the very small test i did and actually just eyeballed t one, didnt see much difference in ws dmg, need to test more though to be sure.

So would just like to see those raw data to be sure of those caps you listed {If you would be so kind.}

I did not do those tests, so sorry can't do that for ya, or I would. I got this information from colleague#1 in game who has outparsed pretty much every setup you could imagine, using these numbers.

I will say, though, that colleague#2 switched back from 328/292 to 350/310 for Ifrit on his spreadsheet two weeks ago, but I have not been able to corner him and figure out why. Something may have changed again in 1.23; it wouldn't be the first time mechanics got shifted.

Edit: His sample sheet that changed two weeks ago also has Gae Bolg capping lower than Ifrit...grr I wish he played the same times I do ><

[ShadowCadja]

Tachi Koma also tested the Garuda's Beak and foud a cap at 358 STR / 315 PIE...

This is more what I think Beak is probably like

I did not do those tests, so sorry can't do that for ya, or I would. I got this information from colleague#1 in game who has outparsed pretty much every setup you could imagine, using these numbers.

I will say, though, that colleague#2 switched back from 328/292 to 350/310 for Ifrit on his spreadsheet two weeks ago, but I have not been able to corner him and figure out why. Something may have changed again in 1.23; it wouldn't be the first time mechanics got shifted.

Edit: His sample sheet that changed two weeks ago also has Gae Bolg capping lower than Ifrit...grr I wish he played the same times I do ><

So we can agree is better to not state what the caps supposedly "are" and end probably spreading misinformation until actual proof is shown by someone? ^^;

[Silvano]

Once again, I was shown actual proof in game, and several people who do testing on this forum agreed with me. If things aren't like that anymore, well, I'm sorry its not like that anymore. But it used to be. I saw an increase on my damage dropping 20str and pie to boost attack power, crit attack power, and crit rate (with Ifrit). I'm not going to sit down and test for hours, again, to prove it. For a long while, I've been one of a very few who was actually doing testing and asking others in-game about caps, at least doing it and sharing my findings.

Anyway, I'm going to keep doing what I do, and I'm pretty sure I've helped a lot more people than I've....hurt I guess?...but that's fine. I'll stop posting my findings, I'm sure you have it exactly right. Please post all of your raw data supporting your claim, comparing a gearset with Ifrit's at 330/300 (I'm rounding) and 350/310 (or 350/310 and 358/315 if you support Tachi's Garuda caps). Edit: I am still trying to get in touch with my colleague to see if it is 350/310 on Ifrit or not; I do want to know if I'm wrong, but no one has posted in the DRG forums the data to show me otherwise, yet.

[ShadowCadja]

Once again, I was shown actual proof in game, and several people who do testing on this forum agreed with me. If things aren't like that anymore, well, I'm sorry its not like that anymore. But it used to be. I saw an increase on my damage dropping 20str and pie to boost attack power, crit attack power, and crit rate (with Ifrit). I'm not going to sit down and test for hours, again, to prove it. For a long while, I've been one of a very few who was actually doing testing and asking others in-game about caps, at least doing it and sharing my findings.

Anyway, I'm going to keep doing what I do, and I'm pretty sure I've helped a lot more people than I've....hurt I guess?...but that's fine. I'll stop posting my findings, I'm sure you have it exactly right. Please post all of your raw data supporting your claim, comparing a gearset with Ifrit's at 330/300 (I'm rounding) and 350/310 (or 350/310 and 358/315 if you support Tachi's Garuda caps).

I never said i've raw data or that i have done extensive testing, all i asked was for the data that confirmed those caps you said cause doesnt make sense that a increase of 1 dps increases the caps by nearly 30 on each stat and also since when i changed from beak to gae bolg not noticing that HUGE increase in dmg that the +19 str and +4 pie i have in my gear that goes 'over' the cap on beak that you stated was should've made.

But like you said in the other thread, this is the internet, cant really trust someone stating stuff without showing any proof(recent at least).

[Silvano]

So we can agree is better to not state what the caps supposedly "are" and end probably spreading misinformation until actual proof is shown by someone? ^^;

How about applying that to arguing what the caps are without your own data or links to data? (Sorry, a tad rude, but I read it as a rude post ._.)

I'm trying to get the data to prove that you are right (or wrong), because I want to know. I wish I had the data that supports my caps because I know people want to see it, but I am not the one who did that testing. If you want to go by the most recent data on the internet, yeah, the guy that built the spreadsheet is back to 350/310 on Ifrit (clicking on any google doc link in that thread is relatively moot since he has updated it, though there is a change log now on his most recent one where you can see when he shifted the stats back). I want to know the why of it before I switch back, since all this happened in roughly the last month. If it is back to 350/310, fine, I still have that gear. Theories change and get improved, now show me the data; I like seeing the numbers and tests .

[ShadowCadja]

How about applying that to arguing what the caps are without your own data or links to data? (Sorry, a tad rude, but I read it as a rude post ._.)

I'm trying to get the data to prove that you are right (or wrong), because I want to know. I wish I had the data that supports my caps because I know people want to see it, but I am not the one who did that testing. If you want to go by the most recent data on the internet, yeah, the guy that built the spreadsheet is back to 350/310 on Ifrit (clicking on any google doc link in that thread is relatively moot since he has updated it, though there is a change log now on his most recent one where you can see when he shifted the stats back). I want to know the why of it before I switch back, since all this happened in roughly the last month. If it is back to 350/310, fine, I still have that gear. Theories change and get improved, now show me the data; I like seeing the numbers and tests .

Wasnt meant to be rude, just a bit tired of seeing people in these forums stating stuff without any proof and then people just end up spreading misinformation, i also i'm curious to know the caps or else i wouldn't be here discussing this lol I could try doing some tests but both my mnk and drg ifrit/garuda were turned into shitty materia =<

[Silvano]

Well, now that unintended rudeness is out of the way (communicating via text is great, isn't it? /sarcasm), I should know here in a day or so why he changed back to 350/310; I was looking at my personal copy of the google doc and remembered he had to share it with me, so I have his e-mail address lol.

[Silvano]

Got an e-mail:

Yeah I've been busy with RL and GW2. I probably won't go back to work on the sheet or FF14 for awhile, at the very least until after ARR, if even then.

I adjusted the logarithmic curve based off of testing from a couple of sources on lower-level items (well lower DPS items not necessarily lower level items), one test specifically from the GLA/PLD forums in regards to sword caps is what got me started on looking at it. Ultimately it looked like the logarithmic curve was slightly more accurate - but in all honesty I didn't play with it for long. From everything I tell with all the data I've looked at, each weapon type has a slightly different curve, so there isn't going to be a curve that works for everything. It's also weird to be a curve, as essentially very little in the game is actually based off of any curves - they're generally linear but with diminishing returns or caps. I'm even inclined to believe the stat caps are actually a hidden-value/attribute on the weapon that's entered within a forced range based on wDPS - I don't have much hard evidence to back that theory, other than the fact that I basically could not find a single logical calculation for the stat cap despite considering every visible variable attribute on a weapon. I even tried to apply 'adjustment' variables, work with single weapon types, and I couldn't get a calculation that worked. That's probably in large part due to the absolutely tiny sample size of known stat-caps we have and my weakness in math more than it actually being a 'hidden attribute,' but it's not out of the question either.

I ended up essentially locking the sheets and letting the community do with them as they pleased from here on out. I hope that someone takes another stab at it with what I started, since I think between the two of us we laid some good ground work (I never thought it was more than a good ground work). The sheet was not generally well received despite being based on what little we know (and repeated admissions that it was generally a framework and not a final project); and the community at large couldn't understand the sheet - especially it's subjective parts. I understand that they want a list of what's a best weapon, but the math simply doesn't work like that; not to mention the limited data we have make it virtually impossible to know all the variables. The sheet seemed to be largely ineffectual at removing a lot of standard myths about which weapon was best as well - with the community continuing to rely solely on opinion rather than fact. That's not something I'm surprised by form the FF14 community though, if not for a handful of exceptionally talented and vocal players in FF11m the community there would have ended up the same. Those players were far more math oriented and thorough than my RL would ever allow for, or my mathematical aptitude would for that matter.

Anyways, in short I'm probably not going to be messing with it for awhile. I was initially looking for some collaborators and didn't even intend for the project to hit lodestone when it did - but it's out there now so whatever.

So yeah, still in the dark. Someone, show me the data!