PLD viable for speed runs?

[SwordCoheir]

When you say "across the board," you mean strictly damaging abilities (AA/WS), correct? For a long while, sentinel didn't increase enmity from actions, such as provoke/flash/rampart/etc, but only damage, unless this has since been tested and found fixed. I haven't seen any updates to that, though, so I've assumed it is still this way.

I meant it was a set amount, it doesn't change regardless of how much/little damage is done. I suppose I could have worded it better, so my bad.

And to my knowledge yes it still doesn't work for abilities.

[Aceofspades]

WAIT, WHAT?! how do you test enmity acurately, is there a parse that can give a number value to an action or is it based off of how one percives the strenght of the action, if its left to the descretion of perception then there is no possable way to claim that as conclusive. No offense intended just curious how you can accuratly test enmity

and to clearify my previous post, you can choose not to use materia enhance shield for the shield with 5 enmity :/ also some add dps supportive julry to increase damage hense hate, this would replace defensive supportive jewlry, adding two teir 4 vit materia to your sward has actually show a respectable increase in damage mitigation and give a little more umph to your SS. Like I said before ,to each their own, as far needing enmity gear to hold hate, no your realy dont, a good understanding of how vit/mind and good timing helps you control the battle feild gose a long way, that and , DDs letting lose is one thing but DDs neglecting their own responsability to hate control is another, if you score 3 combos in a row with all crits, yeah.... time to cool off that hate

[Stufoo]

WAIT, WHAT?! how do you test enmity acurately

SE has said that 1 damage done = 1 point of enmity. You can measure this exactly by going out and provoking something, and having a gatherer/crafter wrist flick something a whole bunch to find the exact enmity value. There is no enmity decay for damage taken and no decay over time, so eventually those wrist flicks will over take your enmity even if it takes a long time, and however many wrist flicks it took, minus one, is how much enmity Provoke gives.

[Aceofspades]

SE has said that 1 damage done = 1 point of enmity. You can measure this exactly by going out and provoking something, and having a gatherer/crafter wrist flick something a whole bunch to find the exact enmity value. There is no enmity decay for damage taken and no decay over time, so eventually those wrist flicks will over take your enmity even if it takes a long time, and however many wrist flicks it took, minus one, is how much enmity Provoke gives.

hmm thats interesting , I now have a new test to confirm, if this is true then its possable to prove that enmity materia is most usefull in controlling gradual enmity build , like what a dd would experiance when slowly catching the enmity cealing set by the tank. That being said , the enmity cealing will always be the same, meaning that if the DDs do not dump enmity ocasionally then they will still catch the tank reguardless, wich gose back to my point. you dont need enmity gear to keep hate , especially if your dds know how to dump enmity and you as a tank know how to effciently attain enmity w/o sacraficeing any deffensive stats.

At anyrate, ty for that info, opens a whole new door when testing gear, and confirming some comon mis conceptions. seriously, ty

[Quatre]

Pro Tip for speed runs, When doing AV, Coincounter 100swing( You run all the way out for Swing, only right behind for Swipe) Run into the group and pop rampart when you're on top of everyone. Grats generating 800 Enmity while running out and avoiding his attack.

[Stufoo]

you dont need enmity gear to keep hate

You need everything to "tank well". It's not about simply "keeping hate", when you have really well geared black mages, they will be pushing that enmity threshold you set no matter what, even with perfectly cooled down quelling, freeze, and chameleon. You need enmity gear, not to win, but to win faster because your DDs aren't on a leash. I understand where you are coming from, doing pick up groups with objectively bad damage dealers, you probably don't feel the need for enmity. Good damage dealers will be held back if you are not wearing enmity gear and meticulously keeping up with your enmity abilities.

It's also not about setting up one perfect set of gear, as you'll use many. You can use physical defense/enmity set (holy shield, meld body/darklight) or DD gear and just play warrior on princess, you should have an HP/enmity set for Chimera, HP/defense gear on coco, pure enmity/dd gear for miser, etc. If you aren't switching your gear/job for every single boss you are not being efficient, period. That's why you tanked Princess so well with your one DEF+ set and got absolutely thrashed because you wore no HP for a MAGICAL DAMAGE BOSS. Not every boss is Coincounter.

[Alerith]

After a little bit of training, I noticed that I had a "Dead Zone" where my enmity generation stopped for a short period of time. Realizing the fatal flaw, I came up with a slightly adjusted rotation:

Aegis Boon (in some cases, before battle, like on Ifrit or Coincounter).
Take up position/Pop maddening potion if you use them.
Provoke
Wait for the first melee attack to strike your Aegis Boon.
Phalanx
Sentinel
Spirit's Within (Sentinel will boost the enmity gained from the already massive gains on SW)
Flash
Outmaneuver and Divine Veil (Divine Veil will provide you with 100% shield blocks for Outmaneuver, netting you a very nice TP increase, which is used to continue this rotation)
War Drum (I know people don't like how this ability currently is, but it does provide good enmity still.)
Provoke
Fast Blade/Flat Blade
Flash

At this point, Spirit's Within should be near 10-15 seconds on cooldown, and Aegis Boon should be ready to use. When the time arrives, use Aegis Boon for another shield block so you can continue with Phalanx and Spirit's Within.

If you notice, I don't put Rampart into any specific part of this rotation. That's because the position it occupies is usually dependent on what you're fighting, while the rest of the rotation is fairly consistent.

NOTES ABOUT THIS ROTATION:

If you miss Phalanx, jump immediately to Flash and follow up with Divine Veil. The first Spirit's Within is absolutely vital for locking in hate early so your DD can start cutting loose.

On Coincounter, I Provoke in the beginning, then save Provoke exclusively for Animal Instinct. You can maintain hate purely through Flash and Flat/Fast Blade, and one provoke will turn him back towards you unless someone decides to keep nuking like a fool. In that event, you'll need to step in front of him and quickly Fast/Flat Blade combo him to get stable hate again.

[Daniel_Fury]

I pretty much use similar rotations to most of these guys, but instead of using Sentinel before Spirits Within, I save it for (2K TP) Goring Blade combo then Flat blade combo straight after, to get the most of my emnity generation.

[PiedPiper]

Protip: /actionq on. then make a macro with these two lines in it:
/ac "Flash" <t>
/ac "Provoke" <t>

Do NOT put a wait in it.
It will clip the animation and get it off faster than you can hitting the buttons. You'll notice this leaves the cool down only 1 second apart and keeps them constantly together for 950 threat + modifier every 30 seconds. It'll also save time on your micro-management because it keeps these two on constant cool down and locked together using up minimal time to interfere with tp gain. This macro will NOT work if actionqeue isn't on (use the auto trans to spell it right, sorry lol).

Also, on coincounter, I usually hold both flash and voke for Instinct and have no issues hooligan back blms in a 40 second kill.

Pro tip 2: Do the same for antagonize rampart on war since ramp only buffs you on war and they have the same cool down!

Protip 3: Fire these macros during long animation weaponskills (like flat blade, spirrits, rage, steel cyclone, godsbane) and you'll often use the abilities either without any "squating" or only 1 squat, further maximizing tp gain!

Protip 4: YOUR JOB IS TO BUILD ENMITY. THIS IS YOUR PRIMARY AND MOST IMPORANT JOB.

You need everything to "tank well". It's not about simply "keeping hate", when you have really well geared black mages, they will be pushing that enmity threshold you set no matter what, even with perfectly cooled down quelling, freeze, and chameleon. You need enmity gear, not to win, but to win faster because your DDs aren't on a leash.

"Keeping hate" just means your dds saw they were red and slowed down. If this happens, you are a failure. You have held your group back increasing the odds of failing both the fight and things like speed run or 17 clear. Your job is to build threat. It is the whm's job to keep you alive. Do what you MUST to make living possible, but your primary purpose is threat.

[Aceofspades]

Protip: /actionq on. then make a macro with these two lines in it:
/ac "Flash" <t>
/ac "Provoke" <t>

Do NOT put a wait in it.
It will clip the animation and get it off faster than you can hitting the buttons. You'll notice this leaves the cool down only 1 second apart and keeps them constantly together for 950 threat + modifier every 30 seconds. It'll also save time on your micro-management because it keeps these two on constant cool down and locked together using up minimal time to interfere with tp gain. This macro will NOT work if actionqeue isn't on (use the auto trans to spell it right, sorry lol).

Also, on coincounter, I usually hold both flash and voke for Instinct and have no issues hooligan back blms in a 40 second kill.

Pro tip 2: Do the same for antagonize rampart on war since ramp only buffs you on war and they have the same cool down!

Protip 3: Fire these macros during long animation weaponskills (like flat blade, spirrits, rage, steel cyclone, godsbane) and you'll often use the abilities either without any "squating" or only 1 squat, further maximizing tp gain!

Protip 4: YOUR JOB IS TO BUILD ENMITY. THIS IS YOUR PRIMARY AND MOST IMPORANT JOB.


"Keeping hate" just means your dds saw they were red and slowed down. If this happens, you are a failure. You have held your group back increasing the odds of failing both the fight and things like speed run or 17 clear. Your job is to build threat. It is the whm's job to keep you alive. Do what you MUST to make living possible, but your primary purpose is threat.

in response to your last paragraph:

that is a completely bold and opinionated statement to make. You job as tank is actually two fold. Holding hate, while important is pointless if your squishy and die ando or put un due stress on your whms. That being said, DDs holding back happends periodically via fight dinamics anyways, examples (hate resets, running or hideing from devistating AOEs, refocusing attacks on adds when needed whild tank continues to hold boss, when tank is incaped and cant use vokes dds relativly slow down or stop,)

To say that one or the other take priority is simply an opinion, where staying alive is pointless if you dont have hate, keeping hate is pointless if you die everytime you take it. And I belive its important to remember, no matter how much enmity gear you have, most well geared DDs can take hate easly if they sought out to do so, Hate management is not just on the tank but the entire party.

Any tank who belive he/she held hate completley on their own , is oblivious to how the game mechanics work and is likely too relient on whm to stay alive. There is a time and place for a offensive tank , but its completely unreasonable to think that a defensive tank has no place in the game.

Final thought: The beauty of this game , as of now, is ones ability to do the same job as onther in a completly diffrent way. I personally belive that stacking HP as a priorty for tank is dumb, but I will not say that they cant get the job done, Its just my opinion that , that particular tatic is far less efficient. To tell somone that having their DDs watch their hate and be carefull not to pull it, a failer, is completely unreasonable and upity. I am willing to bet, I can tank in your position and your WHMs will perfer to have me over you , AND we will still get the job done even if just a little slower.