Thread: Please reconsider 7.0 BLM changes

Originally Posted by Eksu

Please see this Famitsu article from the media tour: https://www.famitsu.com/news/202110/13236998.html

In the section about Paradox, it specifically says that they extended the duration of procs so you can use them to "Trance" (transpose) and return with Fire Proc. They are definitely aware people do this.

I'm just disappointed in how they are approaching this. The best of both worlds is to just make any GCD in UI give you mana. Hopefully something like that ends up shipping on the release build.

I see, thank you for the clarification Eksu. It feels especially disheartening when such prominent voices as yours are still being flagrantly disregarded.

Originally Posted by Ianmaru

??
its not about what i want or not want to do, its about 'the reason of the gutting is to make it fair and balanced for all the jobs in terms of depth/options'.
if other jobs did have such options and then get gutted, then why can BLM stay not gutted? thats unfair, and thats the answer you need to accept.
BLM being 'the one remaining job' is exactly the reason it is special at the moment, thus it needs to be gutted and put in line alongside all the other jobs.

BLM does not significantly outperform other jobs in this game (barring RDM and SMN generally being undertuned this expansion which is an entirely separate topic).

And still this stance is bizarre to me?? We can just ask them to make jobs interesting and deep again, instead of shooting down anything to the contrary and saying "well I guess that's just how it is now". Your position makes no sense.

Originally Posted by Galvuu

So yea, I'd change jobs for the 4th time if what you're describing happens.
(My wife had a similar trajectory, starting with DRK in HW, then WAR in SB, then PLD in ShB and now GNB)

Now so you believe this is the right stance? if it is the right stance, then, doesnt it mean ppl ideally would change job towards the job that has the most depths? right?
so in turns, in ideal scenario, it would make a lot of ppl change job to BLM. just like you and your wife. and thus the player-job distribution tips toward BLM, because it has that one special thing that every other jobs dont have. and thats exactly the problem. having something special on one job, makes that job treated differently by the player base. your answer simply proves my point about the importance of 'fairness' and 'balance' between the jobs.

Originally Posted by Ianmaru

Now so you believe this is the right stance? if it is the right stance, then, doesnt it mean ppl ideally would change job towards the job that has the most depths? right?
so in turns, in ideal scenario, it would make a lot of ppl change job to BLM. just like you and your wife. and thus the player-job distribution tips toward BLM, because it has that one special thing that every other jobs dont have. and thats exactly the problem. having something special on one job, makes that job treated differently by the player base. your answer simply proves my point about the importance of 'fairness' and 'balance' between the jobs.

I have no idea what you're even talking about. My stance is that jobs should have varied depth of gameplay. Ideally all- I'm content with some being simpler and more accessible (one per role, for example, like WHM/RDM or SMN/DNC/WAR can be the "simple, intro jobs"). Also, the fact I'd hop (very begrudgingly, I'd add) to another job is completely irrelevant to this problem, it's just a symptom of the sickness that's modern job design.
What you're saying about people chasing the jobs with the most depth is also untrue. BLM is one of the least played jobs in the game. The only time there was any significant migration to it was ARR (when SMN was really bad due to long ramp up and downtime in Coils and some HM primals too). In fact, it still is, in EW. If you check on a certain spreadsheet site the clear rates per job, BLM is one of the lowest, down there with BRD and MNK as one of the three least played jobs for Anabaseios.
By far and large, the playerbase prefers simple, easier jobs. Which is aggravating, because those people already have over half of the jobs being brutally simplified every expac, and people that want more intricate, hard-to-master, fluid gameplay get less and less with time. It's like it's a crime that I enjoy complicated jobs with a kit that can be adapted to different situations.

Originally Posted by Ianmaru

???
I'm not talking about 'performance' whatsoever. I said 'fair & balanced in terms of depth/options', not 'in terms of performance/dps output'
I've given a focused and straight to the point answers and yet you keep bringing things that's not exactly relevant to my point.
Maybe youre too much in denial to not be able to think straight? so you cant understand my makes perfect sense position?
or do you just want to debate? and making a poor attempt at it by bringing irrelevant points to prolong the debate?
ok I'll entertain you one last time:
now lets say, after BLM gets gutted, suddenly one of the other jobs get a change that makes it possible for them to do nonstandard play. how would you feel about it?

I would feel good if more jobs got more rotational depth and flexibility actually! I would sincerely hope that BLM doesn't have to be sacrificed for this to happen, but what have I said at any point in this thread that would make you think I would be against that? I am also very unhappy with the Monk and Samurai changes that reduce depth and flexibility.

Why is it a bad thing for some jobs to have more depth and a different difficulty delta than others? SE have stated themselves that they desire this, such as when they have stated Sage is intended to be an "expert" healer, or Viper is supposed to be for experienced players (I forget their exact wording but I was there at fanfest when they revealed it!)

It's not unfair if I am playing SMN and someone else is playing a different job and they perform better because they invested in the opportunities the job has for optimisation. I chose this experience by choosing a job that does not have much room for decision-making. Having jobs to fit varying skill levels, playstyles and depths is a good thing, and it really boggles my mind how anyone can suggest otherwise.

Originally Posted by Ianmaru

Now so you believe this is the right stance? if it is the right stance, then, doesnt it mean ppl ideally would change job towards the job that has the most depths? right?
so in turns, in ideal scenario, it would make a lot of ppl change job to BLM. just like you and your wife. and thus the player-job distribution tips toward BLM, because it has that one special thing that every other jobs dont have. and thats exactly the problem. having something special on one job, makes that job treated differently by the player base. your answer simply proves my point about the importance of 'fairness' and 'balance' between the jobs.

I'm sorry but this is just absurd and such an obvious misunderstanding of Galvuu's point. The issue is not people switching to BLM, that is simply a symptom of the actual issue - homogenisation. I really do not understand how we can be clearer about this, we want them to walk back the changes that have stripped so many jobs of their depth. Yes, BLM should not be an outlier but it is for the complete opposite reason to what you are suggesting.

Originally Posted by Galvuu

I have no idea what you're even talking about. My stance is that jobs should have varied depth of gameplay. Ideally all- I'm content with some being simpler and more accessible (one per role, for example, like WHM/RDM or SMN/DNC/WAR can be the "simple, intro jobs"). Also, the fact I'd hop (very begrudgingly, I'd add) to another job is completely irrelevant to this problem, it's just a symptom of the sickness that's modern job design.
What you're saying about people chasing the jobs with the most depth is also untrue. BLM is one of the least played jobs in the game. The only time there was any significant migration to it was ARR (when SMN was really bad due to long ramp up and downtime in Coils and some HM primals too). In fact, it still is, in EW. If you check on a certain spreadsheet site the clear rates per job, BLM is one of the lowest, down there with BRD and MNK as one of the three least played jobs for Anabaseios.
By far and large, the playerbase prefers simple, easier jobs. Which is aggravating, because those people already have over half of the jobs being brutally simplified every expac, and people that want more intricate, hard-to-master, fluid gameplay get less and less with time. It's like it's a crime that I enjoy complicated jobs with a kit that can be adapted to different situations.

I agree completely with you, it's a really awful feeling that as time goes on the people who enjoy in the way we do are less and less welcome.