Why the +/- Enmity stat needs to be abolished

[HiirNoivl]

Well, the OP is making a separation between "tanking" and "keeping hate". According to him/her "tanking" is mainly about taking damage. That's why the OP wants enmity abolished. Because stacking a bunch of enmity stuff is getting in the way of stacking HP/Defense.

If you got rid of enmity and put in an ability to keep hate, all the tank would do is try to minimize damage and add loads of HP to his gear for survivalbility. It would make tanking a bit less complicated when it comes to gear and materia. It wouldn't make it easy to tank.

Of course, another way to make tanking less complicated is to improve the stats on PLD AF gear to actually INCLUDE HP and Defense and buff the class itself so that PLD has a lot more HP and Defense than other classes and then we would have to Worry about what materia we put on our belts and weapons....

But that woud be too easy.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

well, keeping hate is part of tanking. In my opinion, you can't have only one of that

[PSxpert2011]

Its as much the dd's job not to rip hate from the tank as it is the tanks job to keep it. Most jobs capable of dishing out damage have access to archer - emnity abilities so it goes without saying knowing when to use them and when to restrain yourself ...

AMEN to that!





hmmm... How do you get Coincounter? My Mnk would really want that! (in a emergency of course) XD

[Airget]

You kind of assume that enmity +/- has no influence on pvp where it could effect it in a way you haven't thought of yet.

In FFXI's Ballista, Provoke was used to force a target to only be able to attack/cast magic on you.

XIV has 3 "Hate grabbing" abilites
Provoke/Taunt/Flash

Enmity+=Increases the duration of forcing the target to attack you
Enmity-=Decreases the effect of Provoke/Taunt/Flash

So WHMs who may be the target of a Voke/Taunt/Flash can wear -enmity to decrease the duration of a forced target so that they can get back to curing their allies again.

While a PLD/MNK/WAR can use +enmity to increase their timer when forcing a target to attack them.

[Alaltus]

AMEN to that!





hmmm... How do you get Coincounter? My Mnk would really want that! (in a emergency of course) XD

Its a boss in Aurum vale he uses an ability called Animal Instinct which resets emnity sorry if that wasnt clear. If a dd weaponskills or casts a spell on him after its used chances are Coincounter will move to its new flashing red target and deliver a 100 ton swing to the parties face even a stray AA can cause this if the tank isnt quick enough.

edit: or was that a joke? lol

[GreyJorildyn]

As others have posted, in the current gear environment, stacking enmity does not force you to choose between keeping hate or taking less damage. In terms of end game comparisons in gear, you must consider best in slot. Right now that's the HDL set and enmity accessories. Combined with a nice sword and waist, one can attain over 250 enmity bonus, adding heaps more enmity per action. That is how we tanks keep up with the DPS classes.

Furthermore both tanks (war and pld) have enmity through damage. Sentinel provides a bonus in enmity to damage dealt for both jobs. Antagonize helps warriors further. Both also have a combo with enmity multipliers and pld's is much larger to off-set some of its shortcomings. All in all it's not perfect but it will likely never be.

Asking to abolish a tank-specific stat just because you don't like it or think it pigeonholes a tank into X gear is short-sighted. You're asking them to change fundamental portions of combat, and one that, if removed (said gear/bonus), would literally make the game unplayable unless further alteration was done.

[Aceofspades]

Hmm , I stack enmity on my belt only, and some jewlry. I will do all I can to keep hate but if there is a DD that has no reguard for their own safety , then who am I to not let the boss goble him/her up. Point is, you can keep hate just fine, but if some Ahole dd is trying to make a point then all they will do is ultimatly lessen the amount of dps they put out becuase they are always dead. Hate control is indeed a party issue and not solely on the tank. That being said, using your abilities , and using your abilities WISELY are two completly diffrent things, I would suggest before you build a set , play with your jobs, get to understand just how far you can push the enmity pull on a spirits within, rather then spam abilties, prepair for the fight and pay attention, not just to the enemy but to yourself and your party, I like using parsers where possable because it will give you a detailed list of who is using what and where the enemy attacks durring a fight. If a pt member is not using hate reducing abilities like they should be , and is constantly stealing hate, I would fix THAT problem before turning to your gear for answers.

Knowing your enemy is worthless if you dont know yourself.

[HoolieWho]

I like having a trade-off between hate generation and survivability.

Unrelated, but I wish VIT/DEX or maybe VIT/MND were the primary/secondary damage stats for GLA/PLD instead of STR/MND.

[Frein]

waist melds hardly give "tons" of hp without double+ melding tier 4 materia (and btw, nobody said it's mandatory melding enmity+ on waist). Personally i got enmity+ and hp on my belt.And equipping both hp and enmity i still manage to reach 4k+ hp on my paladin with food and party bonus

There is nothing weird about double melding tier 4 materia. Also, you're also stuck in the present. If FFXIV is still around two years later, I bet we'll be making decisions between +600 HP and +150 Enmity rather than +120 HP and +30 Enmity. More and more stats will have to be sacrificed at the Enmity altar to keep up.

-using the same game Op speak...they don't do anything. in Wow tanks don't have any enmity+ association with stats. They keep hate only via damage, using often skills which generate more hate than another and augmenting such skills via skill three

This is just wrong. Initially WoW didn't have hate bound to any stats. Abilities like Sunder Armor just didn't scale in any way, and while they worked well for a long time, eventually gear had progressed so much and tanks had lost so much DPS relative to DDs that Blizzard had to do something. That something was, IIRC, to modify all extra hate components by your armour rating.

Asking to abolish a tank-specific stat just because you don't like it or think it pigeonholes a tank into X gear is short-sighted. You're asking them to change fundamental portions of combat, and one that, if removed (said gear/bonus), would literally make the game unplayable unless further alteration was done.

You're right, I don't like it. However, I think SE is heading for the same cliff WoW did specifically because their design was shortsighted and they didn't consider future changes to the game. This is why I proposed a similar solution.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

There is nothing weird about double melding tier 4 materia, but it's random with a low success rate and enmity materia tier 4 it's hugely expensive. Not everyone have the resources or the will to try that way. And for god's sake, i already said enmity+ is a percetual gain not linear, after you stacked some you don't need more, much less 150 <_< and many people already said you stack enmity only in slots where hp can't be stacked
If you're so unwilling to listen someone else different from you, i'm done. I've said everything i could say, but i don't see any change