Thread: Revert summoner to 5.55 while re-reworking it please?

Originally Posted by Darkpaw

Any rollback temporary or permanent is not going to happen. MCH’s begged and pleaded for a rollback throughout Stormblood when the job was literally unplayable for 80% of the playerbase, it did not happen.

All I’m saying is stop looking backwards, take what you currently have and build and expand upon it. The direction of summoner is fine, but any one would agree it needs more. Aetherflow is not an interesting job mechanic, summoner needs something more. It needs something to keep people engaged but it has to be something worth while. Previous iterations of summoner are not going to hold the key to this answer.

What are some job mechanics you would like to see added to the current iteration that would make it better? Something that makes sense for the new direction and adds something beneficial to the summoner.

You can wax lyrical about where they might take it to your heart's content. Given how little DRK, MCH, WAR, WHM, AST, SCH and SCH(laser edition) have changed since their reworks, I refuse to hold my breath for the could-bes and blue moon thinking which we all know will amount to nothing. SMN doesn't even have a good base to build off now.

My complaints have also yet to touch on just what a mess it's made of the ACN>SMN/SCH fork, previously they had gameplay that had clearly branched in two directions with a good balance of similarities and differences. Now the nicest that can be said is they both spend their time spamming their ruin recolours.

Originally Posted by tearagion

What part of SMN's direction is fine? Care to specify? All I see is a set in stone rotation of the ruin spam everyone apparently hated, with different colours every 15s. Please elucidate specifically what part of newSMN is a good direction to take the job, without diverging into fanciful imaginations about where it could go. I am sincerely curious about what an answer would be.

At least it’s a summoner now not a badly implemented pet based DoT mage.

I find it funny how that people think I’m happy about summoner’s current implementation, when I’ve said repeatedly that the implementation was not well done.

You say it has no base, rotationally you may be correct, but in theme and identity it does have a solid start, the idea of using demi summons, and smaller summons that change the affect of job actions is a good idea on paper, however reskinning the same basic abilities is not a good implementation of that idea. They could work to build on that system and create something great.

My biggest point is that regression does not equal progression. Stop waxing fanciful about how great summoner was.. it wasn’t they’ve yet to hit a truly great implementation of summoner. Which is why they have altered summoner drastically every single expansion.

See the intent and the idea behind the implementation and build from that. Not looking back at previous iterations that have had people begging for summoner reworks all along. Or put forth an entirely new idea not based on anything currently existing or that which has come before.

Originally Posted by Darkpaw

At least it’s a summoner now not a badly implemented pet based DoT mage.

I find it funny how that people think I’m happy about summoner’s current implementation, when I’ve said repeatedly that the implementation was not well done.

You say it has no base, rotationally you may be correct, but in theme and identity it does have a solid start, the idea of using demi summons, and smaller summons that change the affect of job actions is a good idea on paper, however reskinning the same basic abilities is not a good implementation of that idea. They could work to build on that system and create something great.

My biggest point is that regression does not equal progression. Stop waxing fanciful about how great summoner was.. it wasn’t they’ve yet to hit a truly great implementation of summoner. Which is why they have altered summoner drastically every single expansion.

See the intent and the idea behind the implementation and build from that. Not looking back at previous iterations that have had people begging for summoner reworks all along. Or put forth an entirely new idea not based on anything currently existing or that which has come before.

Distilling all the other things I didn't ask about, and asked to exclude: the direction that is "fine" is the thematic direction, which hasn't significantly changed (still summoning simulacra of the same primals), other than SMN doesn't have DoTs anymore. Thanks for answering.

Many people feel the need to say that summoner is more "summoner now"

I do not know what makes people feel summoner being more summoner, but I would thought this is a video game not a tabletop RP DnD ripoff... I do enjoy me some roleplay from time to time, but if I want to play a video game I prefer enjoying the game content itself than the idea of me being able to summon big monsters. (Which by the way disappear after 2 seconds and the job is not actually summoner but borrower cause all you do is borrow their powers to your pet)

Alas, NO, I don't think reverting back is a good idea. Some things need fixing, and in the future patches or expansions we might get some extra actions. I just wish we could use all of our abilities with lowered potency in lower content. Doing dailies with low lvl summoner is a pain I try to avoid like the plague.

Originally Posted by Darkpaw

My biggest point is that regression does not equal progression.

And change does not equal progress

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

All I know is that the job wouldn't be in the state that it's in now if they had done an honest adaptation of the Final Fantasy Summoner fantasy from the beginning instead of marrying it off to WoW's warlock class. We have a nice little level 50 job...and that's all it is.

Too little too late, give us a full job already with summons that don't follow the gem/demi paradigm and while you're at it give the ex-SMN crowd their Time Mage or Necromancer. There is no long lasting max level content to take this job into anyway, so do as you wish.

I made the thread like you suggested - thanks for the advice there, there's been some interesting discussion.

Why not let summoner retain its identity in this game and have evoker added with a more realised set of summons? In ff3 at least, evoker had multiple possible actions/summon with summoner being limited to one admittedly typically stronger cast. This would allow the evoker to pivot to a more supportive role if needed or focus on damage (Assuming they don't keep the random selection for an unknown reason).

Unfortunately, if Squenix doesn't introduce leviathan, ramuh, and shiva into the mix by next expansion, you can consider the SMN class good as dead since they'll be too hyper focused trying to "correct" this mistake until it's so broken that barely anyone will want to touch it. We'll see what happens, and the comments and threads to follow with it. I can hardly wait.

Having actions directly come from summoners instead of pets (Egi-assaults sucked!) is what I've always wanted. 6.0 gave us that, which is great! In my opinion, this new summoner is a very good direction which can be built upon. One thing that I think they can change now is differentiate Bahamut and Phoenix more.

Weird saying everyone hates it but then a couple sentences later say there is a frequency of use. There is. But maybe it’s because people enjoy it. People don’t okay classes they hate once they are done leveling them.