Multiple jobs from a singular class

[Rydin]

Couple points...

1. In the beginning, classes were homogenized, and the line between roles was blurry, at best and nonexistent at worst. Each Mage could heal, nuke, DoT and Enfeeble. Each melee seemed a lot like the other melee classes. Gear seemed to have very little effect. Balance gave way to chaos. A change was definitely needed.

2. Jobs were promised as a way to bring more structure. A defined system that was to be the perfect compliment to the Amorphous Armoury system, which, despite it's flaws, had so much potential.

3. In the updates leading up to, and including, 1.20... Classes receive a major overhaul. Classes are now much more defined. Conjurer HEALS... thaum Nukes, Glad does shit damage but tanks. Lancer builds TP fast and fights at a semi-ranged distance,. Etc.. These changes effectively did what we thought jobs would do, and while some of them were needed (Thaum, I'm looking at you), these changes really eliminated the need for jobs

4. The Job system in FFXIV is released and is a great misconception. Jobs are not more specialized play styles than the classes from which they stem (With the exception of Barcher). In fact, the role of each job is exactly identical to the role of each class (Once again, except for Barcher) as was established in patch 1.20.

And now the problem with this entire argument
Neither side can get what they want.

If you want multiple Jobs per class then you are out of luck. Each class does one thing. If jobs are an extension of that, then what could possibly be the second job for a Thaum? I know you are going to say enfeebles or DoTs... but Thaum doesn't do that now... You'd be stuck with one job that IS the class and another job that is contrary to the spirit of the class. If they wanted Thaumaturge to branch into both a Nuking job and also a DoT job then thaum should have retained some of its low level DoTs.
PLD is a Gladiator... any other class that stems from Gladiator would have to be completely contrary to what a Gladiator is.
Same for WHM coming from CNJ. What would you have Conjurer become?
It would look like this:
Conjurer is a healing class.... It branches into 2 jobs... one that heals and another that heals
OR...
Conjurer is a healing class.... It branches into 2 jobs... one that heals and another that has nothing to do with the idea of Conjurer at all

If you want one class for each job then you are also out of luck. The Armoury system (Which is the cornerstone of the entire battle system) dictates that each class is designated by a weapon. To suggest that multiple jobs can use a sword, for example but not be based off of Gladiator would cause the armoury system to breakdown much like Norman did in Star Trek upon hearing the illogical phrase "Everything I say is a lie"
Each class is designated by a weapon. Which means you can't have 8 jobs that use swords be based off of 8 different new classes.

Yoshi-P and crew have painted themselves into a proverbial corner. I am actually anxious to see how they get out of this one

[Fadigre]

Please stand for a reading from the book of Rydin 3:15.

[Rydin]

Please stand for a reading from the book of Rydin 3:15.

Whether you agree with me or not (It's so hard to identify sarcasm on a forum), that was actually really funny...
We type "lol" all the time but I actually laughed out loud

[Zyph]

~snip~

What they COULD do (oh boy here we go) is make jobs start at level one, equip-able via the soul crystals, and make "classes" into weapon skills only. So like Lancer is the "class" you'd be using if you were to equip a lance while on the Warrior job, etc. "Lancer" would contain all the damaging weapon skills, True Thrust, Legsweeper, Doomspike, etc, as part of it's ability list, and Warrior would get all the utility abilities like Bloodbath, Provoke, Berserk, etc. Obviously, weapons would be limited for jobs on a case by case basis, so WHM couldn't equip great-axes. This would also allow for the implementation of many many more weapon types without having to come up with a "Job" for them, and this would allow people to gear their jobs for different situations. I haven't thought much about how mages would work under this system since it's an idea I just thought about as I wrote this.

I in no way endorse this as my primary crackpot desire, I just don't want to see multiple jobs per class.

[EdenArchangel]

And of course the whole shared level silliness. I log in after a future patch and notice I'm a 50 beastmaster, summoner, samurai, ninja, and dark knight. Neato. (Not really neato)

[Fadigre]

Whether you agree with me or not (It's so hard to identify sarcasm on a forum), that was actually really funny...
We type "lol" all the time but I actually laughed out loud

No, no. I agree with that majority of what you said, Rydin. It was a fantastic post!

I think they could get around have more than one class per weapon as for example there're 3 classes that use knives already (Gladiator, Culinarian and Leatherworker)

They could just code around it I'm assuming, right?

[Sabaku_Usagi]

If anything, one way they could force the multi-job per class scenario would be to limit the abilities you can use from the class. The job quests start at 30, so what if they didn't allow you to equip any skills from the class after 30?

The class would have 20 levels of abilities that the Jobs can't use.

Job A would have 20 levels of abilities that define it's purpose.

Job B would have 20 levels of abilities that define & separate it from Job A.

[Arkine]

What they COULD do (oh boy here we go) is make jobs start at level one, equip-able via the soul crystals, and make "classes" into weapon skills only. So like Lancer is the "class" you'd be using if you were to equip a lance while on the Warrior job, etc. "Lancer" would contain all the damaging weapon skills, True Thrust, Legsweeper, Doomspike, etc, as part of it's ability list, and Warrior would get all the utility abilities like Bloodbath, Provoke, Berserk, etc. Obviously, weapons would be limited for jobs on a case by case basis, so WHM couldn't equip great-axes. This would also allow for the implementation of many many more weapon types without having to come up with a "Job" for them, and this would allow people to gear their jobs for different situations. I haven't thought much about how mages would work under this system since it's an idea I just thought about as I wrote this.

I in no way endorse this as my primary crackpot desire, I just don't want to see multiple jobs per class.

You can avoid rivers of tears by making it optional, get an NPC that resets your job to level 1 so you can play again if you weren't happy with unlocking WAR as MRD50.

I'd do it, I totally would.

Down with classes!

[Rydin]

No, no. I agree with that majority of what you said, Rydin. It was a fantastic post!

I think they could get around have more than one class per weapon as for example there're 3 classes that use knives already (Gladiator, Culinarian and Leatherworker)

They could just code around it I'm assuming, right?

That's true... Longswords, great swords and daggers could be separate... But they'd have to go in and change quite a bit to make that happen

[Zyph]

You can avoid rivers of tears by making it optional, get an NPC that resets your job to level 1 so you can play again if you weren't happy with unlocking WAR as MRD50.

I'd do it, I totally would.

Down with classes!

Well what I meant was that it makes new players start at level 1 on whatever job they chose, keeping current players where they are in their progression. OR, if they wanted to keep the same unlocking quests, they could allow players to still choose their "Class" at the start of the game like they can now, but all new adventurers would start on the "Freelancer" job (use all weapons but to limited effectiveness), and starting at level 10 they can unlock the other jobs.

Again, still just pure speculation/what if, but the more I think about it, the more I like it.

They could just code around it I'm assuming, right?

Ehh... if they're good at coding (and judging by what I've seen running in game, I'm doubtful) then it would take a bit of a rewrite to make the system robust enough to not cause problems later. Still more than doable, though, it's just not going to (hopefully) be a quick fix.