Battle Formations

[Vaymathias]

Since they once said they wanted the game to be more tactical, and to make positioning more important.....

How about Battle Formations. As you and your allies position yourselves around your enemy, you gain extra bonuses (or the enemy gets some negatives) for as long as you hold the positions.

O = enemy
X = player character

So like: "Strong Defense"

X X O

The player farthest from the enemy would gain a slight attack bonus, 10% of that players hate generated while in this formation would instead be applied to the player in front of him. The player in between the enemy and his ally would gain a slight defense boost and maybe a boost to block rate.

Or: "Beat Down"

X O X

Both players gain a slight store TP boost, while the enemy gains defense down.

You would also be able to stack them as long as all the requirements are met, so both at once would look like this:

X X O X

However, only the players in the actual individual formation would receive the benefits, so only the player between the enemy and another player would receive the benefits of both formations while the other two would only receive the benefits from the formation they're partaking in. They would still benefit from the negative status's on the enemy such as defense down.

You could also have more complex formations using up to 8 players, maybe even multiple enemies.

Formations would be automatic and would be applied to the first people in that formation so for instance if a player moves in between two players in the "Strong Defense" formation, he would not receive any buff and the formation of the others would remain undisturbed, unless one of the two move out of formation, then the formation would be reapplied to the new participants.

This wouldn't stop two others from creating the same formation else where around the enemy.

Some formations would work with the position of WS's, and some would work against. If a formation with a greater number of participants has the same set up as a formation with a lower number of participants, only the benefits of the greater one is applied.

Formations would only consider and apply for party members, in active mode (maybe, some things would have to change to include mages) and targeting the same enemy.

[Reynhart]

I think the tactical part comes from "Does something when executed from somewhere".

Besides, although your idea can be interesting in theory, i don't see how people will be able to stay in formation, if they couldn't fully understand the concepts of "Sneak Attack" and "Trick Attack" back in FF XI

[Masamune1004]

It's a nice idea.

[Vaymathias]

I think the tactical part comes from "Does something when executed from somewhere".

Besides, although your idea can be interesting in theory, i don't see how people will be able to stay in formation, if they couldn't fully understand the concepts of "Sneak Attack" and "Trick Attack" back in FF XI

Oh no, all the nightmares are coming back to me........I remember all the times I tried teaching people how to use SA and TA..... /cry

But yeah, some people not being able to understand concepts will help separate the bad players from the good.

[Enfarious]

It was always easier to teach a person to SATA than it was to teach the rest of a pt how to let a thf SATA freely.

I love the idea of positioning, but as has been said and will be said people will either "not get it" or "not care about getting it"a.k.a."I don't understand how/what to do but I don't want anyone to realize I'm a tool."

Kinda like skillchaining and magic bursting in ffxi.

[Vaymathias]

It was always easier to teach a person to SATA than it was to teach the rest of a pt how to let a thf SATA freely.

I love the idea of positioning, but as has been said and will be said people will either "not get it" or "not care about getting it"a.k.a."I don't understand how/what to do but I don't want anyone to realize I'm a tool."

Kinda like skillchaining and magic bursting in ffxi.

Every game has new things to learn. This is what makes them different. As I said, just because SOME people won't ever use battle formations for what ever reason, doesn't mean that it won't make the game play more interesting/fun for many others.

FFXI was so fun when SATA and Skill chaining/magic bursting was commonplace. The Zerg fest that it became was garbage.

EDIT: Oh an, they could also make a tutorial teaching how to use the battle formations.

[Enfarious]

I didn't mean to imply it shouldn't happen. I'd use the shit out of it, my first 75 was thf, I told ppl what to do in pts so that I could be effective and continued to play it well clear to 99 after years. I'd love to have those mechanics or something in that vein in this game. I'm a huge fan of team based strategy, positioning, not just "Tank keep it's back to us." but real positioning. Skillchains Magicbursts Synergy attacks in a game I can't remember Paradigms in XIII, I spent more time in the gambit screen tweaking then I did fighting in XII, there's a ton of others but I'm sure everyone gets it.

Oh "Carnage Heart" super off topic but yeah, talk about battle strategy to an extreme ... why am I not playing that right now actually?

I like the idea of a tutorial, that way people would know how at least on a basic level to use these types of systems. Something not unlike that initial fight in the main story quest, hell it could be worked into that fight I think.

[Viritess]

Love the idea. Wonder what the server to client traffic would amount to if it was automatic. And how much they would have to ping the updates. Aslong as it was party only i'd expect it wouldn't be that much. But Devs seem get antsy about bandwidth. Partially because people bitch about it so much. (some times with good reason)

Course if the updates are too far apart it will get abused to death. Form up, get bonus, scatter, run back to keep bonus etc.

All that aside. Would love it. And it would give some real incentive to mid range classes. Theres so much Melee and Full ranged that the Mid or pole range from alot of classic games including tabletop has been lost because it really doesn't matter. For instance despite the Lancer's slight bonus to range over other melee classes it doesn't "keep" anything away from you due to the threat of the pointy end, cause numbers know no fear!

But if you add formation like you have above. and perhaps add even 3 deep formations such as:

X X X 0

There the 3rd X out really has to be at midrange to be in range to hit it could serve as an added bonus to design by the devs, and bring by the players more midrange style classes/jobs. Could definately add a new dimension that we haven't seen in alot of games in a long time.

[Vaymathias]

Love the idea. Wonder what the server to client traffic would amount to if it was automatic. And how much they would have to ping the updates. Aslong as it was party only i'd expect it wouldn't be that much. But Devs seem get antsy about bandwidth. Partially because people bitch about it so much. (some times with good reason)

Course if the updates are too far apart it will get abused to death. Form up, get bonus, scatter, run back to keep bonus etc.

All that aside. Would love it. And it would give some real incentive to mid range classes. Theres so much Melee and Full ranged that the Mid or pole range from alot of classic games including tabletop has been lost because it really doesn't matter. For instance despite the Lancer's slight bonus to range over other melee classes it doesn't "keep" anything away from you due to the threat of the pointy end, cause numbers know no fear!

But if you add formation like you have above. and perhaps add even 3 deep formations such as:

X X X 0

There the 3rd X out really has to be at midrange to be in range to hit it could serve as an added bonus to design by the devs, and bring by the players more midrange style classes/jobs. Could definately add a new dimension that we haven't seen in alot of games in a long time.

Oh yes, party only, maybe alliance if/when, but I couldn't imagine how hard it would be on the servers if there were 30 people all wailing on a single enemy and everyone of them would have like 8 battle formation just because of numbers. I'll specify that.

3 deep certainly, possibly 4 if you think about Archers, maybe an arrow head like formation, or even a cross formation (front, back, left, and right of enemy)

There could also be formations that benefit mage abilities, like auto-refresh, so they could go into active mode, aoe range increases, potency enhancements, more spell accuracy, or even recast alterations. The only thing about mages is not really knowing how it would work for them, maybe they would have to be over 8 yalms and in a triangular formation? Or one behind the other? I wouldn't mind hearing ideas for how it would work for them.

[Viritess]

For ranged you could maybe move from Formations to combo synergy. While still close together myabe a cap on how many can be bunched (unless thats a handy way for the devs to write an attack that hits all your mages at once)

Maybe a CNJ's Aero and a THM's Fire on "formation" combo makes a firestorm. Possible effects could include hitting more targets, longer burning with higher damage (since your fanning the flames so to speak)

Since Ranged biggest boon is distance and mobility may have a stronger case for having their "formations" more of a synergy of spellcasting then base placement vs the enemy.

Another idea for casters/ranged in formation could be Maybe an Arher infront of a BLM. when the archer uses say, heavy shot. It gains an elemental dmg, or direct path damage, (aka it hits the target and any enemies more or less directly between the archer and the target.

That could make for some skillful positioning party wide for the tanks to line up multiple enemies, and the archer to target the farthest away. thus hitting all of them.

But the possabilities are really endless.