Simple Fix to PLD

[Riaayo]

How about we just make Defense a useful stat and call it a day.

[Vire]

Because even if pld could survive the bigger hits better then a war people would still bring war to tank because its not just about surviving but the speed in which you clear the dungeon at that matters. Not to mention the best status effect you can put on a boss is dead. If a warrior is doing double the damage and the fight ends much sooner then that is less things that need to be healed or dodged ect.


Edit: It doesn't even matter if the pld could never lose hate either since as it is blm and mnks can burn full tilt with out pulling if the war is good. When it comes down it pld is deficient in every metric that makes a tank or party member useful compared to warriors.

[fusional]

i mean, okay, make paladin take less damage than warrior... but to what end? what does it help?

as it is i can already just toss regen on our warrior tank and toss the occasional cure 1 without ever falling behind. what does taking less damage do to help paladin, exactly, when damage taken isn't the problem?

yes, it can make up for the lower HP, but that still doesn't help paladin keep hate against 160 dps.

[RedAffinity]

I hope WAR remains a capable tank, inferior to PLD, but still capable. There are many DD's, but when you reserve key roles to 1 job (PLD / WHM), it's not fun waiting around when the said job isn't available.

[Vire]

Really this is how you should figure out if a tank is effective at his job or not. Its like the Maslow's hierarchy of tanking.

Can I survive the next hit?(if yes then any hp over is just a unnecessary buffer for whm to hit cura.)> Is the Monster attacking me(You only have to do as much enmity as your highest dps any extra is wasted.)> How much damage am I doing to this boss to help get him down faster?.

As you can see Pld dose not get past the first or second let alone the highest tier which is the damage that they are contributing to the group. This could come from the pld or if they made it some how that you only need one whm and could always bring an extra DD in that last slot because the pld puts out some healing on the party when it hits with its weapon skills or something. The job needs a lot of work.

Generally people find tanking fun when they have to make compelling choices like doing more dmg vs holding hate and riding that line as hard as they can while surviving.

[NoctisUmbra]

i mean, okay, make paladin take less damage than warrior... but to what end? what does it help?

as it is i can already just toss regen on our warrior tank and toss the occasional cure 1 without ever falling behind. what does taking less damage do to help paladin, exactly, when damage taken isn't the problem?

yes, it can make up for the lower HP, but that still doesn't help paladin keep hate against 160 dps.

Really? I'm pretty sure this was explained in great detail multiple times throughout the thread, including the OP itself.

PLD takes less damage > Needs less WHM attention > Bring extra DD instead of extra WHM.

The extra DD more than makes up for what extra dps WAR has over PLD.

As for enmity, although it may still need a further boost to it after this we can only tell when that time may come. One step at a time. You keep referring to this 160 dps. Is there any fight other than Miser's Mistress with MNK DDs that you want to talk about. I'd have no problem if WAR was still preferred for Mistress and some other fights. Problem is it's preferred for everything.

I hope WAR remains a capable tank, inferior to PLD, but still capable. There are many DD's, but when you reserve key roles to 1 job (PLD / WHM), it's not fun waiting around when the said job isn't available.

Well, I wouldn't go so far as inferior. What i advocate is them both having their unique flavor- pros on cons on both sides. They can have their purposes as tanks, instead of it being WAR > PLD pretty much everywhere.

[Gunslinger]

i mean, okay, make paladin take less damage than warrior... but to what end? what does it help?

Because maybe this game will eventually have a boss that doesn't rely on a speed kill to get a chest? It's not hard to imagine a time/situation where your DPSs won't be balls-to-the-wall every second of their existence (as much fun as that is).

This whole "but how will they keep hate?!" argument totally ignores the other side of the equation; DDs should be responsible for their hate as well, not just the tank. This is one thing FFXI had right. They didn't give Dragoons Evasive Jump for nothing, you know? PLD hate is not the problem, that's a play-style issue and a choice that a party/LS makes (yes, more hate is always nice). The fact that PLD takes roughly the same damage as a warrior (since they, gasp, wear the same gear) is the real problem.

[fusional]

Really? I'm pretty sure this was explained in great detail multiple times throughout the thread, including the OP itself.

pretty sure taking less damage has absolutely fuckall to do with generating more enmity. pretty sure you're still completely missing the boat on exactly what's wrong with paladin. pretty sure i've pointed out exactly what's wrong with it a few times and you and others just ignore it. pretty sure you probably won't ever truly understand exactly what's wrong with it until you actually have dps capable of breaking 160 dps and ripping hate 8 times in a 1:55 fight.

[Gunslinger]

pretty sure taking less damage has absolutely fuckall to do with generating more enmity. pretty sure you're still completely missing the boat on exactly what's wrong with paladin. pretty sure i've pointed out exactly what's wrong with it a few times and you and others just ignore it. pretty sure you probably won't ever truly understand exactly what's wrong with it until you actually have dps capable of breaking 160 dps and ripping hate 8 times in a 1:55 fight.

Pretty sure you should sit out for a few minutes, champ, you're getting yourself all worked up

[NoctisUmbra]

pretty sure taking less damage has absolutely fuckall to do with generating more enmity. pretty sure you're still completely missing the boat on exactly what's wrong with paladin. pretty sure i've pointed out exactly what's wrong with it a few times and you and others just ignore it. pretty sure you probably won't ever truly understand exactly what's wrong with it until you actually have dps capable of breaking 160 dps and ripping hate 8 times in a 1:55 fight.

^ This is why I ignored directly responding to you, and instead addressed everything you mentioned actually in general posts of mine. I can tell when someone's about to get all worked up for nothing.

Considering I've addressed my thought process behind why taking less damage is more important to PLD and how it can actually help its hate generating issues in most scenarios and I've done this multiple times without actually quoting you, but rather in larger more general posts of mine... you've just proven how you didn't read those posts while trying to call me out on ignoring you.

It's a bit more complicated than Taking less damage > More enmity. There're steps in between. Multipe stages to the cause and effect. Not very complicated, or at least I thought it wasn't.