Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 4 5 6
Results 51 to 57 of 57
  1. #51
    Player
    Edax's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Shirogane, W15 P60
    Posts
    2,002
    Character
    Edax Royeaux
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Erendis View Post
    You are just being obnoxous. Babies have nothing to do with creations...
    Procreation is the act of creation. I'm sorry if I'm being pedantic but if Emet has restored the Source, the Ancients could presumably restore themselves via that method. Their old souls lost thousands of years ago would return in their children.
    And if souls used by Zodiark couldn't be restored, why would Emet think otherwise? Would Zodiark be some kind of liar?
    (0)
    Last edited by Edax; 03-02-2020 at 08:44 AM.

  2. #52
    Player
    QT_Melon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,150
    Character
    Qt Melon
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Edax View Post
    Procreation is the act of creation. I'm sorry if I'm being pedantic but if Emet has restored the Source, the Ancients could presumably restore themselves via that method. Their old souls lost thousands of years ago would return in their children.
    Would they be the same? From what it looks like their "stable" lives were already cultivated and formed through life experience. From the short story Emet, mentioned souls serving their purpose - so being reborn doesn't retain the same effect. It doesn't sound like Emet is pondering on "Bob the Ancient" to come back in the form of his neighbor's kid.
    (1)

  3. #53
    Player
    Edax's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Shirogane, W15 P60
    Posts
    2,002
    Character
    Edax Royeaux
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by QT_Melon View Post
    Would they be the same? From what it looks like their "stable" lives were already cultivated and formed through life experience. From the short story Emet, mentioned souls serving their purpose - so being reborn doesn't retain the same effect. It doesn't sound like Emet is pondering on "Bob the Ancient" to come back in the form of his neighbor's kid.
    Then why would the sundered Ascians support Emet? They aren't the "originals" but rather soul fragments that have been pieced together over time and they would effectively be killed if Igeyorhm the Ascian were replaced by the original "Igeyorhm the Ancient".
    (0)

  4. #54
    Player
    QT_Melon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,150
    Character
    Qt Melon
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Edax View Post
    Then why would the sundered Ascians support Emet? They aren't the "originals" but rather soul fragments that have been pieced together over time and they would effectively be killed if Igeyorhm the Ascian were replaced by the original "Igeyorhm the Ancient".
    The sundered Ascians are a bit different since it happened after Zodiark. Zodiark tempered those involved with summoning as Emet stated. Another example is ourselves as the "WoL" apparently from the story's hints it's not the first time we've been alive (which makes sense) and through the years we've probably had different incarnations ie Tenzen or Ramza
    (2)

  5. #55
    Player
    Cilia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The Hermit's Hovel
    Posts
    3,685
    Character
    Trpimir Ratyasch
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Edax View Post
    Procreation is the act of creation. I'm sorry if I'm being pedantic but if Emet has restored the Source, the Ancients could presumably restore themselves via that method. Their old souls lost thousands of years ago would return in their children.
    And if souls used by Zodiark couldn't be restored, why would Emet think otherwise? Would Zodiark be some kind of liar?
    Quote Originally Posted by Edax View Post
    Then why would the sundered Ascians support Emet? They aren't the "originals" but rather soul fragments that have been pieced together over time and they would effectively be killed if Igeyorhm the Ascian were replaced by the original "Igeyorhm the Ancient".
    What they're trying to do isn't reincarnate Ancients, but to bring them back as they were before the Final Days; i.e. restore fully everyone who sacrificed themselves to summon and empower Zodiark, body and soul. The Rejoining itself will restore the souls to their original state, but that's just Phase 1 of the plan (and only necessary due to Hydaelyn's Sundering).

    Support for this plan comes, at least in part, from tempering to Zodiark.
    (10)
    Trpimir Ratyasch's Way Status (7.2 - End)
    [ ]LOST [ ]NOT LOST [X]RAGING OVER DEMIATMA RNG
    "There is no hope in stubbornly clinging to the past. It is our duty to face the future and march onward, not retreat inward." -Sovetsky Soyuz, Azur Lane: Snowrealm Peregrination

  6. #56
    Player
    Alleo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    4,730
    Character
    Light Khah
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 91
    Quote Originally Posted by Cilia View Post
    It's also unclear as to whether or not the current races existed before the Sundering or are a product of it. I'm personally not sold on the idea that Zodiark himself created races - only that those new lives were able to come into existence as a consequence of his intervention.
    Since we get the confirmation that those with the echo are people from Amaurotine at the final days doesnt that kinda show that the Sahagin priest who got the echo through Elidibus too has such an ancient soul? Which then means that they are not stuck on the spoken races. Maybe (still pure speculation of course) the new life after Zodiark was done was just all of those ancient people that died being reborn into new species. Since there were many cities there should be many souls that got thrown into the underworld even before Zodiark existed. But maybe this was the first racism..seeing how they were not in the body of ancient ones the tempered Ascians said that they should be used as fuel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edax View Post
    Procreation is the act of creation. I'm sorry if I'm being pedantic but if Emet has restored the Source, the Ancients could presumably restore themselves via that method. Their old souls lost thousands of years ago would return in their children.
    And if souls used by Zodiark couldn't be restored, why would Emet think otherwise? Would Zodiark be some kind of liar?
    There is a difference between someone casting great magic and the birth of real life. The plan was to exchange existing souls. Maybe they would simply use the aether of the living people and get an ancient soul back and then push that one into the body that was left behind.

    I mean Emet is tempered...why should he not believe what his "god" says? It makes no sense for them to exist anymore. Zodiark needed fuel to rewrite reality and fuel to change the planet back to how it was. He probably used them just like Thordan used Lahabrea to power himself up or how Levi ate that priest. The souls are aether after all. I do believe the great tragedy of their actions would be the destruction of their planet and the death of the new life only to find out that all was useless because Zodiark could not give the true souls back..but since they are tempered they probably be fine with that too.
    (4)
    Last edited by Alleo; 03-02-2020 at 05:58 PM.

  7. #57
    Player
    LineageRazor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    3,822
    Character
    Lineage Razor
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 90
    On the topic of it being impossible to restore the souls of those used to fuel Zodiark, due to them being consumed and destroyed to be used as energy - we don't necessarily know that is true. The full extent of Zodiark's power is still an unknown, and it's entirely possible that he can perfectly recreate one of these destroyed souls (if they truly were destroyed). Heck, he might even be able to do it using the exact same particles, waste heat, matter, and energy the soul specifically contributed to, for all we know, meaning it's not even just a copy of the original soul, but the exact original soul restored.

    I, personally, believe that Zodiark can do what the Ascians want him do. The tragedy isn't that they're chasing after a pipe dream. No, the tragedy is that Zodiark could give them exactly what they ask for, but in so doing would doom the world to another eventual catastrophe, since Zodiark was just a band-aid on that problem in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edax View Post
    Then why would the sundered Ascians support Emet?
    We don't actually know what the Ascians do to "recruit" new Ascians. There's a lot of possibilities. In the case of the Ascians who bear sundered fragments of the Convocation members' souls, it's possible that they are still Tempered to Zodiark, and so go along with it for that reason.

    However, even discounting Tempering, there's a host of possible reasons why a recruit would accept, even knowing that the Ascians' eventual goal would mean their own death. Some would be those drawn to the power and influence Ascians possess. Assuming they become quasi-immortal as the Ascians do, there would be those who do it for the extended lifespan - even if they are doomed to one day die to the Rejoining, they'll still have gotten to live thousands of years longer than they normally would have. There might even be some who sympathize with the Ascian's plight, and want to help them restore their "perfect" world (particularly likely if they see the current world as being beyond saving).

    Power, long life, and working toward a worthy cause? Yeah, the Ascians probably didn't have a lot of trouble getting folks to join, even if they DIDN'T use lies, brainwashing, or trickery, which is also possible. The Ascians play the long game, too; they may well influence the life of a potential for DECADES to try to mold their thoughts into being favorable (for example, arranging for someone's life to be miserable due to corruption of those in power, leading them to both envy power and also to see the world as diseased and in need of correction).
    (3)

Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 4 5 6