I wish AST never had a DPS buff

[Seraphor]

I feel like that would be taking a step backwards.
They've just gone and given WHM a shield, and allowed AST and SCH shields to stack. Plus removed all of SCH's additional DoTs.
WHM without any regens or Benison would be pretty dull, and SCH without the fairy and it's regen would be incredibly reliant on keeping a shield up at all times.
AST capitalising on delayed heals (there's only one so far) while eliminating its regens and shields would just be a direct healer under another name.

I'd much rather they spread regens and shields out across all healer jobs, and capitalised on differentiating them via job mechanics.
WHM has lilies and gains resources on using their proc'ed direct heals.
SCH uses ability amplification/spread via Tactics, and in the fairy (Eos/Selene to Seraph)
AST has cards and a couple of delayed skills.
So we come up with a fourth healer that uses unique mechanics to provide the same regens and shields that the other jobs do.

I really don't get this whole 'WHM/SCH clone' thing either. All healer jobs need to have basic heals, basic aoe heals, and their own modified versions for flavour.
AST pulls different parts of each WHM and SCH, and has it's own unique skills too. It's not a WHM clone. It's just that WHM is so basic, because they want to keep it as an entry level healer, that it shares so many parts of it's toolkit. That's like saying all melee DPS are just DRG clones because they have a 1-2-3 combo and a gap closer.
I can't see us ever getting a Necromancer or a 'siphon' healer either.

[Kalise]

Plus removed all of SCH's additional DoTs

Which every SCH is thrilled about.

WHM without any regens or Benison would be pretty dull

How so? How is putting up a HoT every so often that much more exciting than pushing out a big fat heal every so often?

WHM was interesting enough for 6 years without Benison.

SCH without the fairy and it's regen would be incredibly reliant on keeping a shield up at all times.

Who said to get rid of the fairy? Or to strip them of any and all healing?

AST capitalising on delayed heals (there's only one so far) while eliminating its regens and shields would just be a direct healer under another name.

I literally stated three that exist in the game, right now, in that post.

Also, it would not simply be "A direct healer under another name" as it would be pro-active like a Shield healer as opposed to reactive like a direct healer.

I'd much rather they spread regens and shields out across all healer jobs, and capitalised on differentiating them via job mechanics.

But this stifles potential design and contributes to a level of homogenization that results in healers feeling the same just with different colour spells.

I really don't get this whole 'WHM/SCH clone' thing either. All healer jobs need to have basic heals, basic aoe heals, and their own modified versions for flavour.

Not every healer needs to have Cure, Cure II, Regen, Medica and Medica II.

Just look at SCH. SCH doesn't have "Cure II" it has Adloquiem which combines "Regen". It doesn't have a Regen-alike instant heal with bonus (Like Aspected Benefic). It only has a Medica II-alike which it can use a Tactic to change into a Medica.

That's how AST is a WHM clone. Because it does run Cure, Cure II, Regen, Medica and Medica II. Called Benefic, Benefic II, Aspected Benefic, Helios and Aspected Helios. It even has a proc for Benefic II after using Benefic like the Cure II proc from Cure.

The only musts for a Healer is to have a ST and an AoE heal. However many variants they have of each and what extra effects they may or may not have doesn't really matter. Just so long as they have 1 heal that heals a single target and 1 heal that heals multiple people.

Beyond that, you have an endless expanse for design. Since nothing else is mandatory. You don't NEED a regen if you can simply cast a heal every 15-18s that heals the same amount or put up a shield that absorbs the same amount. You don't NEED a shield (Unless the game specifically designs for damage that would exceed 100% of players health, even then, a short term damage reduction buff would also work, i.e. if WHM got Shell/Protect to reduce the damage it would have the same functionality as using Benison to mitigate the damage)

These are only requirements if your goal is to make every healer be the same.

That's like saying all melee DPS are just DRG clones because they have a 1-2-3 combo and a gap closer.

Except, this analogy fails. Since DRG doesn't have a 123 combo. It has a 12345 combo. Which is not shared by literally any other melee DPS in the game.

[Seraphor]

Except Aspected Benefit is closer to Adloquium than Regen. So it doesn't have a Regen.
And you basically confirmed my point by saying Aspected Helios is a Medica II analogue. Why not call it a Succor analogue?
The only thing AST takes from WHM that is not also shared by SCH, is the fact that it has 2 tiers of basic heal, Benefic and Benefic II. And using Benefic is mostly pointless once you get II. I wouldn't complain if the spell was upgraded, and then you couldn't call it a WHM clone.

12345 includes a 123

[Kalise]

Except Aspected Benefit is closer to Adloquium than Regen. So it doesn't have a Regen.

You mean, other than the fact that Aspected Benefic is instant cast? Provides a Regen much earlier than it provides a Shield? Is also alongside a Benefic II which is what Adloquium represents for SCH?

If you're saying that the heal upon application makes Aspected Benefic more like Adlo than Regen, consider the fact that it is literally just applying the tick of Regen that is lost in the difference from AB's Regen being 15s duration (So 5 ticks) vs Regen's 18s duration (So 6 ticks)

And you basically confirmed my point by saying Aspected Helios is a Medica II analogue. Why not call it a Succor analogue?

Because Helios exists and is a Medica analogue.

There is no extra Succor skill that doesn't provide an extra effect. Such a skill can only be created via using Emergency Tactics on Succor.

Helios literally 1:1 equates to Medica.

Thus Aspected Helios 1:1 equates to Medica II which is "Helios/Medica but with an additional effect"

The only thing AST takes from WHM that is not also shared by SCH, is the fact that it has 2 tiers of basic heal, Benefic and Benefic II.

As well as 2 tiers of AoE heal, Helios and Aspected Helios. As well as an instant cast heal with lasting benefit in Aspected Benefic.

Literally, outside of oGCD's, AST and WHM's healing kits are identical. With the only difference being that AST can eventually use Nocturnal Sect to replace the HoTs with Shields.

Meanwhile, SCH is still sitting there with a different kit entirely. With the only shared aspect with WHM being the tier 1 heal having no additional effects (Physick and Cure I)

Adlo takes the place of Cure II and instead of being a big fat heal, rolls in an additional effect in the form of the shield.

Succor is SCH's only GCD AoE heal, which is taking the place of both Medica and Medica II as a result.

There is no single target instant cast heal for SCH. They instead have healing from their fairy to provide a similar effect or have to substitute for casting Adlo's for the shield.

AST could have been unique too.

It could have had Horoscope instead of Helios/Aspected Helios.
It could have had Excogitation instead of Aspected Benefic.
It could have had Benefic instantly proc (And consume) delayed effects on the target (Such as Excog) instead of having Benefic II.

Causing it to have, not only a unique way of healing through delayed effects, but a base healing kit that is structured differently to that of WHM/SCH (Even if the above does come across very SCH-esk there could have been further alterations, such as drawing cards using a mechanism that provides healing output)

[KDSilver]

I really don't get this whole 'WHM/SCH clone' thing either.

When AST was released :

Benefic = Cure (also proc, but different effect)
Benefic II = Cure II
Helios = Medica
Aspected Helios = Medica II
Aspected Benefic = Regen (with one less tick, but with one initial heal because how shield work in Nocturnal).
Lightspeed 150s = Presence of Mind, but with a different effect because it couldn't be the same, but the idea behind and the recast time are on the same line.
Essential Dignity = Tetra & Benediction combined. Potency scaled on remaining HP. Because you can't give more button to ast due to its card system.

Not clone 100%, but a lot of the heal given were definitly inspired from WHM gameplay (and you more or less played AST mostly the same as WHM, but with cards).
What was very unique from ast were card system, and time manipulation through Time Dilation and Celestial Opposition (gone)

But today, it's a lot different with every little heals on 60s.
Even if somehow, AST stil has some echo skills right now.

Celestial intersection could somehow be seen as Devine Benison.
Horoscope is an answer to Plenary Indulgence. (trigerring an additional heal upon using your gcd aoe heal).

But at the very base, that's where we've started from. And when I talk how AST was designed, I'm talking about when it was release and during 3.x series.

Except Aspected Benefit is closer to Adloquium than Regen. So it doesn't have a Regen.

It's instant. It has the same cure potency. It only has one tick less that is actually applied directly, which make regen and Aspected Benefic the same.

And you basically confirmed my point by saying Aspected Helios is a Medica II analogue. Why not call it a Succor analogue?

Because Scholar only has Succor as a gcd aoe heal, while whm and ast both has one direct heal and one aoe heal + side effect.
Even though AH is basically a succor as well. But when looking at the whole kit, since it's very WHM inspired, and also the same potency, that's why its commonly seen as Medica II analogue.

The only thing AST takes from WHM that is not also shared by SCH, is the fact that it has 2 tiers of basic heal, Benefic and Benefic II. And using Benefic is mostly pointless once you get II. I wouldn't complain if the spell was upgraded, and then you couldn't call it a WHM clone.

12345 includes a 123

See what I said above.

[AnotherPerson]

I just hope they bring back the card effects that isn't all pure DPS. Going through the AST storyline the first time in 5.1, I was so hyped because I was going to be able to get 6 cards each unique for their situation. Then I read the card effects and had a 'bruh really?' moment where basically all the card effects did the same thing. Royal road was a legend. ;-; I was very disappointed.

Rather a flat DPS buff on all cards - keep some of the old card effects and adjust them so there's still utility.

This is just an idea of what I think would probably help the job keep its uniqueness and card system. I hope I can at least see some ideas here being implemented because currently, AST's card system has no real flexibility at all for utility and is utterly boring to shuffle through.

Assuming the old cards were kept - Balance, Bole, Ewer, Spear, Arrow[?], Spire[??] - they would have to be adjusted accordingly. Ex: If Spear is kept, increase the percentage potency. Even if it isn't a flat Balance increase, your odds of getting something that can contribute to DPS is higher. After all, Crit can also be used for healing too so everyone can benefit from it situationally speaking. If that can't happen, allow the cards to also be placed and used as a debuff on enemies. Ex: Arrow essentially induces a slow effect on the enemy. This would allow AST a lot more solo potential as well in instances if that need be the case even if they can't excel at fighting with pure statistics. Plus, being able to slow a mechanic down would enable less healing time required and more breathing room. Optimizing this playstyle as an AST would ultimately require you to keep track of a lot more factors, but there is a guarantee that all your card effects can definitely impact the battle accordingly and be rewarding in the process.

As for spire, it could be either a Direct Hit Rate increase or a Limit Break gauge increase. Adjust percentages accordingly. That way people don't need to be compelled to constantly get Balance and every card can see effectiveness and be granted on any character.

Perhaps make it so when you draw, on the card gauge, you get to see the next 2-3 different cards you can draw (or redraw to remove clunky-ness and keep effectiveness), minor arcana improves the effect of the card by 1.5x to 2x without granting a seal, royal road changes the effect to AoE with reduced percentages. This way you can 'see into the future' and adapt. Of course you may not always have the best cards, but you can't always be dealt with the best hand. The choice now is how to use the cards - improve them individually or turn them into an AoE effect. This can also let your team communicate when your mana is running low and whether there is/isn't an Ewer in sight.

I would say to scrap the idea of getting 3 different seals for divination because this inherently makes people redraw for the max effect (card effects can only be the same in this situation to avoid losing max potential, which is equivalent to saying everything be dps), making each card have to lose its uniqueness and punishes the player for adapting by playing different cards for the situation.

[GrumbleBeard]

There are a lot of fun and interesting ideas that could be used, but as long as people demand that everything be perfectly balanced with one another things will never change. The reason why most classes of every role feel so similar to each other is because nothing can have a true strength that another does not. I like a lot of the new stuff AST got in shadowbringers, but I wish the cards would have just been removed completely at this point. I liked that the old cards had tangible effects outside of "number get bigger" even if it was only minor. They're just not fun to use as they are.