Hard limit on flipping house plots

[Jojoya]

As I've already described, an in-game system would make it easy to identify house flippers.

That's an interesting observation about JP housing. However, is that hearsay, or are there stats? As for why, it could be something like a smaller proportion of JP to EU and NA players, or a cultural JP difference. Or maybe SE is concerned about self-image in JP and is afraid of being perceived of exploiting JP players?

I come from lotro, where they developed a system where they could spawn extra wards to accommodate the player base. So that's a 2004 MMO that, in 2012, modified their housing system in that manner. Frankly, I am quite skeptical of SE devs not having a similar solution, which leads me (as said) to conclude that SE Sales pushed for it.

Create alts on each JP data center and see for yourself. That's what I did last fall and found most JP worlds with dozens if not hundreds of houses available in Mist, Goblet and Lavender Beds (low level alts couldn't get to Shirogane of course). Now that wards 19-21 are open to personal purchase, I plan to do another all world census once I'm not busy with new content.

Being a business that has to weigh and balance financial and technological considerations against player requests doesn't mean they're exploiting any one. If you believe that SE is out to exploit players in general, or NA players specifically, then don't do business with them. There are plenty of other games to be playing.

I played Lotro for 6-7 months in 2014. Housing there flat out sucked. It was terrible. Being able to dynamically expand Neighborhoods was useless when most of them were mostly empty on the servers I played on and many players in the forums were reporting their worlds in similar situations.

But LotRO had also designed Neighborhoods to mingle Fellowship and player houses from the start. Houses here were originally FC only. It was only after wards were mostly empty that SE decided to open houses to personal purchase. They probably hadn't foreseen that happening when they were originally designing and programming the wards, and so didn't foresee a need for dynamic expansion.

If SE really wanted to exploit us, houses would be a mogstation purchase with an additional monthly fee attached. That would be far more effective in exploiting players than allowing players to take breaks of up to 45 days from the game without losing a house.

[Tohe-Spidhire]

...found most JP worlds with dozens if not hundreds of houses available

If you believe that SE is out to exploit players in general, or NA players specifically, then don't do business with them.

I played Lotro for 6-7 months in 2014. Housing ...sucked. ... terrible. Being able to dynamically expand Neighborhoods was useless when most of them were mostly empty on the servers I played on and many players in the forums were reporting their worlds in similar situations.

Houses here were originally FC only. It was only after wards were mostly empty that SE decided to open houses to personal purchase. They probably hadn't foreseen...

If SE really wanted to exploit us, houses would be a mogstation purchase with an additional monthly fee attached.

(Timmed quote to fit)

Thanks for the info. That's interesting about JP wards. So either the NA and EU markets simply have more players, and/or it's a difference in cultural mindset. For example, in another forum thread, someone commented that JP players were experts at the trial DDR, whereas the Echo mainly exists because NA players have a preference to overcoming adversity (i.e., struggling through a fight).

For lotro housing, you needed to hunt for available houses in the low-level wards. At the same time, it was like ffxiv in that you rarely saw anyone in your ward. So it's an exaggeration to say that lotro housing sucked; it did not. Having high-level wards that were mostly empty meant that a busy FC could easily get all their members in the same ward, without inconveniencing other FC players.

Heh, I can see how absurd it would have been to tie housing to FC membership. If SE had been smart, then founding an FC would spawn a ward for *that* FC's members, with an option to spawn additional wards as the FC membership grew. And separate wards could exist for non-FC players.

Why do you consider paying money at the Mog station to be an exploit? The reality would be that SE Sales actually considered Mog housing sales, but was scared of an overreaction from players.

If SE Sales is not being sly, then they can get something like the following done:

- implement the ability to spawn wards
- implement in-game house selling
- delete the accounts of house flippers, which is easy to spot via the in-game housing system
- sell a Mog Store option that allows you to suspend your account for either six months, or a year, without losing your house

Naturally, there can be a middle ground here. And I'm skeptical of the SE development team, which would be following directions from SE Sales. The game is competently put together, so the absurdity of the housing situation is incongruous with this competence, suggesting something intentional.

[Risvertasashi]

There is already such a system in place. If your housing is autodemolished, you recover 80% of the gil paid for it.

As for sales, that's why we have the random timer unto the plot open. It doesn't stop trading via FC-owned houses, but there's no good way to get that without harming legitimate players - but on the flipside, the house never being personal is the price they pay for that.

[Jojoya]

For lotro housing, you needed to hunt for available houses in the low-level wards. At the same time, it was like ffxiv in that you rarely saw anyone in your ward. So it's an exaggeration to say that lotro housing sucked; it did not. Having high-level wards that were mostly empty meant that a busy FC could easily get all their members in the same ward, without inconveniencing other FC players.

Oh, it absolutely sucked at the time I played. It might have been very easy to get a house but you had very little in the way of customization thanks to the hook system. Think it was something like 23 total hooks in a small house you could use to place a furnishing and each hook was designated for a specific type of housing item. If you wanted to put a large furnishing where a small furnishing hook was, too bad for you.

If SE Sales is not being sly, then they can get something like the following done:

- implement the ability to spawn wards
- implement in-game house selling
- delete the accounts of house flippers, which is easy to spot via the in-game housing system
- sell a Mog Store option that allows you to suspend your account for either six months, or a year, without losing your house

You don't know the game's engine and coding limitations. It may not be possible to dynamically spawn wards as a result. There have been many things over the years frustrating both developers and players because of the 1.0 "spaghetti code". They've been chipping away at it and making improvements as they can but there's no magic wand to fix everything on demand.

Again, if you're so skeptical of the company you shouldn't be doing business with them. Or if you feel it's just the ward system that's incompetently designed don't do it as content.

No matter how much you want to spin it as SE trying to exploit you, you are ultimately the one allowing virtual ownership of virtual property to tie you financially to the game. All you have to do to get rid of that tie is walk away from the house. It's not needed to enjoy the rest of the game.

There are still apartments if you want to participate in some form of housing. You can buy an apartment, take a break for 2 years and come back to the apartment as you left it. If SE was trying to exploit players, wouldn't they be forcing us to retain a subscription to keep the apartment as well? There are far more players with only an apartment than there are that own a house.

[Tohe-Spidhire]

Oh, it absolutely sucked at the time I played. It might have been very easy to get a house but you had very little in the way of customization thanks to the hook system. Think it was something like 23 total hooks in a small house you could use to place a furnishing and each hook was designated for a specific type of housing item. If you wanted to put a large furnishing where a small furnishing hook was, too bad for you.

You were exaggerating the lotro housing issues before, and now you're exaggerating again.

You don't know the game's engine and coding limitations. It may not be possible to dynamically spawn wards as a result. There have been many things over the years frustrating both developers and players because of the 1.0 "spaghetti code". They've been chipping away at it and making improvements as they can but there's no magic wand to fix everything on demand.

Again, if you're so skeptical of the company you shouldn't be doing business with them. Or if you feel it's just the ward system that's incompetently designed don't do it as content.

No matter how much you want to spin it as SE trying to exploit you, you are ultimately the one allowing virtual ownership of virtual property to tie you financially to the game. All you have to do to get rid of that tie is walk away from the house. It's not needed to enjoy the rest of the game.

There are still apartments if you want to participate in some form of housing. You can buy an apartment, take a break for 2 years and come back to the apartment as you left it. If SE was trying to exploit players, wouldn't they be forcing us to retain a subscription to keep the apartment as well? There are far more players with only an apartment than there are that own a house.

That's the second time you've suggested that I leave the game. It is completely inappropriate for you to be encouraging other players to leave the game. Shame on you.

Though I have a sense of where you are coming from, it is not your job to be an SE apologist. Very nice and all for you to take the time to inspect JP servers, but you need to get your life priorities in order.

[Jojoya]

That's the second time you've suggested that I leave the game. It is completely inappropriate for you to be encouraging other players to leave the game. Shame on you.

Why is it inappropriate when you are clearly unhappy with what you believe SE's business practices to be? If you don't have faith in a company, you shouldn't do business with them.

What's inappropriate is for you to be claiming that SE is exploiting players. That needs to stop.

I'm also amused that you're questioning my life priorities and calling me an SE apologist simply because I took a few days to do a world wide housing census. I got curious about something. I took the needed steps to learn more about it then shared what I learned with others who had likewise been curious. We all had a better understanding of the housing situation across all data centers as a result.

Personal attacks have no place in constructive discussion. Again, shame on you.

[Tohe-Spidhire]

Why is it inappropriate when you are clearly unhappy with what you believe SE's business practices to be? If you don't have faith in a company, you shouldn't do business with them.

What's inappropriate is for you to be claiming that SE is exploiting players. That needs to stop.

I'm also amused that you're questioning my life priorities and calling me an SE apologist simply because I took a few days to do a world wide housing census. I got curious about something. I took the needed steps to learn more about it then shared what I learned with others who had likewise been curious. We all had a better understanding of the housing situation across all data centers as a result.

Personal attacks have no place in constructive discussion. Again, shame on you.

-1 trolling

[Jojoya]

-1 trolling

No trolling on my part.

But I suspect many of us are now doubtful about you considering your unwillingness to engage in constructive discussion on a topic you started.