I want to get into Raiding

[Sasarayu]

I disagree with this. I was a nobody when I started raiding—I had no raiding experience (this is my first MMO), I was honestly not that great of a player, and I really only had 2 friends that actually did Savage content. We just dove in and did random PFs during Creator to introduce me to the content (I’d already been doing Extremes for a bit at that point). Eventually I started searching for statics and doing Party Finders (I don’t do much PF nowadays because I’m a little too busy, but it was never an issue doing them before with random people). I managed to “get into this inaccessible scene” and clear an Ultimate fight last year. I might not be well-known in the raid scene, but I’ve never really tried to be. I’ve never been kicked or otherwise “blacklisted” by anyone in the raiding community, so. /shrug

Anyways, I don’t find the community inaccessible at all.

I've played FFXIV for years and spent 1,5 years hopelessly pugging 2/4 Savage and Ex Trials on my own with absurd time investment in proportion to the payback. In my first FC I was more or less told to my face "raiding is gated and we deliberatly keep people out to teach them their place and maintain hierarchy and imagined feeling of superiority".

Three consecutive days in PF to get Nidhogg, Sophia and Zurvan down with around 8 hours straight prog is a ridiculous investment if you compare it to my first week static clear on Deltascape or the six weeks I spent on Eden's Gate (which was three weeks too much imo). In contrast, Creator for me was cleared the week before echo and Midas I only dreamed about. I always find I get less than I aim for in FFXIV and getting into raiding always seems random and not "you get what you work for" and it leaves me exhausted.

The group I cleared Eden's Gate with also had no ambition or time to do new Hades Ex and I guess that was the final nail in the coffin for me. To me Ex Trials are Christmas and maybe the most fun PvE of the game in terms of time/challenge and supposed to be done impromptu with friends or raid group on just one evening and even this is too difficult to get done sometimes and I will never go back to three days 8-10 hours straight "Nidhogg mode" PF just for that. So no more raiding for me I decided.

In WoW I seem to always end up somewhere suited to my ambition level and skill and since I have a lazy side this means I do keystone master achievement for M+ and usually prog most of a Mythic raid tier at a leisurely pace (which in time investment is a lot more than 4 Savage bosses with a decent group) and that time invested is actually corresponding to what I get for it.

Your reply shows that 1. you already had a few friends to begin with and 2. that the raid scene is as random as I describe it and you can be lucky or not but our differing personal experiences prove it's not smooth sailing all the time.

I've also learned that some high end raiders have the same problems and feel anxious about getting that group if they take a break for a few months or miss a tier and they are subject to this randomness and hierarchial thinking just as much as me with the difference they at least improved their chances just like you have by finding that banana peel and the right people once upon a time.

This anxiety in turn fuels the elitist mentality and it serves more purpose than just ego inflating for first time MMO-ers or washed up former WoW-raiders wanting to be big fish in small pond. It gives an actual network to those seeking to hold on to that windy, shaky peak where chances of getting a good group is higher. This is why you see the elitist linkshells, Discord channels and Twitter mentality with people scratching each others backs like freemasons almost. It's absolutely exotic behaviour in the eyes of someone only used to for example the WoW raid community.

[Curisu]

I don't want to sound mean but maybe you are just not good enough for raiding.

Like you I play on the Light DC and had absolutely no problem to get my e1-4s kills via df without a static.
Well, every Tuesday I looked at the Raiding Discord for a group to do the reclears but beside that I didn't do anything with friends.
Over all my time investment was really low because I stopped playing when I didn't perform well and just switched groups when one didn't reached the wanted mechanic.

Raiding in FFxiv is easy.

[Sasarayu]

I don't want to sound mean but maybe you are just not good enough for raiding.

Like you I play on the Light DC and had absolutely no problem to get my e1-4s kills via df without a static.
Well, every Tuesday I looked at the Raiding Discord for a group to do the reclears but beside that I didn't do anything with friends.
Over all my time investment was really low because I stopped playing when I didn't perform well and just switched groups when one didn't reached the wanted mechanic.

Raiding in FFxiv is easy.

As for "bad" my midcore track record is 1st week clear on Deltascape, 6th week clear on Eden's Gate, a clear at least on Creator, all ex trials back in HW usually on the first days or weeks when they had some tuning and challenge and weren't just about mechanics. I don't log myself but I looked at logs uploaded by others and I'm usually a solid 80-percentile player and sometimes when I know an encounter and push it I've had 95%+. If that's "too bad for raiding" then okay.

I find FFXIV design favors a certain type of intelligence, namely the mathematical and logical and those who have perfect memory are good at sudoku and crosswords and whatever are usually good at FFXIV raiding.

I have quite poor memory and mix up order of sequences, when a certain mechanic is going to happen etc but in contrast I have above average performance and is considered a "strong" player in some situations. It's also why I play DPS and not healer since for DPS it's a bit forgiving even if you forget things but healers must have perfect memory at all times. DPS can be guided through an encounter by using their rotation as waymarks but healers have no rotation and must know what happens since there is no reactive healing at all (or reactive playstyle whatsoever) in FFXIV. SMN is the most set in stone rotation of all and I like it for that reason since it leads me through mechanics I otherwise forget.

In WoW this isn't a problem because it has more diversity in design. Experienced raid leaders see "okay, he's that type. Let's not assign him this mechanic but let's have him do that thing instead because his type is usually good at it" and everyone contributes.

I've found people in FFXIV who doesn't even perform half as well as me on my highest level but who learns certain patterns and memorizes sequences three times as fast.

It's this narrow approach of the game that I struggle with but it doesn't mean I'm "bad" just because my initial learning of a certain mechanic is 15% slower or so. I make up for it once I get it and usually can prog faster than those people who got that specific sequence memorized faster than me at first.

In my experience prog is slower with a group of brainiacs who get mechanics immediately, present detailed tactics for mechanics but can't perform well enough fast enough than it is with somewhat dim people like myself who don't get everything but has a few extra gears when it's needed. The best groups ofc have both those abilities but I tend to find myself with either the first category or people who have neither tactical nor individual performancewise good skills.

Category#1, the "smart but underperforming" people tend to test my patience and those who are good at both things find me mentally taxing when I don't get a mechanic on the first try.

So at the end of the day, finding a group or doing PF becomes very random and the group jumping in PF you describe can take anywhere from 1 hour to 6+ hours of failed groups even if I'm not the one holding things back. Afte r6+ hours mental fatigue sets in and anyone can start failing.

I also know high end groups where 2/8 people are actually "smart" and understand mechanics well while the rest are just doing what they are told but compensate with unrelenting energy towards raiding. As if they just don't get tired. This works too.

It is a design problem at its core and FFXIV does not in any way welcome diversity. It is a game that demands absolute conformity on all levels.

A community as quick to judge and point fingers because someone doesn't fit the exact mold of conformity required, the way you do, is also difficult to find in other games. FFXIV is black or white, fail or succeed, right or wrong and has so few greyzones and I'm all about that grey zone.