So no job adjustments in 5.2?

[Nedkel]

Are you for real dawg? WHAT DOUBLE WEAVING ON WAR? OMEGALUL.

"It's trash and worse than bloodbath"...what? What is this even? It's literally a 60k heal if used properly FOR FREE. PLD has to jank their entire rotation to get what you get for free. In IR it's outrageous. You should ALWAYS have ONE charge of Infuriate so at bear minimum that's a 27k-ish heal FOR FREE. Just doing a single weave with a macro. WAR has NO double weaves.

NF is the only tank CD that can be used after the fact, to heal up after damage has happened other than GNB's aurora, which is far, far inferior to NF's heal. Because of that, Holmgang is no where near as bad as LD is for DRK. In fact, with Equilibrium and NF boosted by Thrill, you get so much healing that it's not even a bother to be at 1hp anymore.

NF literally makes you immortal for AoE situations.

NF is far, far better than Raw. In the amount that you heal it takes raw like lethal levels of damage being done to, to even come close to mitigating the same amount of healing you get from NF.

Infuriate + Nascent flash, since you want to use it on highest damage skill

[Brannagh]

Tanks complaining about things homogenized: Tanks feel THE SAME, WAR and DRK both just cycle through rotations of pushing 1 button. There is no IDENTITY. WAR has NO complexity to fill in the downtime.

Tanks complaining about Nascent Flash: How DARE I be made to line up my cool downs to work with an ability and plan during my down time. WAR should work THE SAME as other tanks and only push 1 BUTTON.

I don't think this game is perfect, and WAR definitely needs some extra filler mechanic, but damn this NF conversation is getting as tired as Living Dead.

[BarretOblivion]

They get their MP back...

Meanwhile, NF costs nothing...



PLD doesn't get anything from using Intervention.

Popping another CD doesn't count as getting something from the skill.



Yeah, but it only affects ONE target. You can use it on yourself OR on an ally.

NF gives healing to the Warrior that uses it AND gives healing and DR to the ally it's used on.



Even with 0 set up, you get basically a better HoS from your 123 combo plus the 10% DR since that'll push out a lot more healing than the garbage that is the shared Brutal Shell shield which will likely outperform the measly 5% DR difference.

If you actually play with half a brain, you'll float an Infuriate charge and be able to use that to get a massive burst heal out on demand.

Also, again, NO OTHER TANK IN THE GAME gets a defensive boost from using their ally skill on an ally.

Meanwhile, most Warriors ignore their "Self" skill, because the defensive bonus they recieve from their "Ally" skill is far superior. (Especially when you consider diminishing returns on stacked damage reduction CD's making healing and shielding even stronger during times when you'd also be popping Rampart/your 30% CD)

I vehemently disagree. From my experience even large save ups and floating for NF has almost 0 effect on my co-tank even getting a 'big heal' when a heal can just... use a OGCD like they are already doing to heal that amount. I am looking at my other tank, not myself when it comes to an OT skill, and its effect is very unnoticable, a 50% reduced heal is a minor help, damage reduction is better.

Also PLD... have you done savage E2S? There are tankbusters now that target both tanks, making Intervention the BEST OT skill in the game during these fights. The point of an OT skill is to help with tank busters and assist in them. NF is the worst to do that if it mitigates only 10%, even if you do heal them a bit after it requires your team to heal much faster due to your HP being lower after a tank buster.
Then we have the issue of basically needing it to be on a macro and there have been times where I can sit there mashing NF macro and my character sits there like a brick while my co-tank gets a tankbuster to the face and NF refuses to go off. Now yes, that's the issue with the macro, but hey NF needs a macro to use properly so what can you do.

And lets talk about brutal shell... did you forget you get a shield on top of the heal to? People tend to forget that but its okay.

Even if you argue NF is 'okay' its not the best OT skill, that goes to DRK hands down. Its a strong shield, faster cooldown than NF, can be used on themselves or their co-tank, and hey, you don't over cap or get a diminishing return if you don't get healer shield. So why pick WAR when DRK is a better version of it?

[Kalise]

Also PLD... have you done savage E2S? There are tankbusters now that target both tanks, making Intervention the BEST OT skill in the game during these fights.

But that's when you pop other CD's.

If popping other CD's is how we define the worth of skills, then NF is imba if you pop it with Holmgang!! Not only does NF then make you invincible but you also are protecting/healing your OT!!!



For dual tankbusters, PLD can take the lead with the strongest kit to aid with them, either through Cover or Intervention plus self CD's.

However, Intervention itself doesn't actually provide the PLD themselves with any mitigation. Neither does TBN or HoS when used on allies.

NF, is the only skill that DOES provide something defensive to both the caster and the target.

The point of an OT skill is to help with tank busters and assist in them. NF is the worst to do that if it mitigates only 10%, even if you do heal them a bit after it requires your team to heal much faster due to your HP being lower after a tank buster.

Uhh...

That's why you are healing them with NF...

NF sacrifices raw damage reduction, for much better heal regain after the fact (Since, unless you're a complete dunce with paper for gear, you should be able to survive a Tankbuster without the 5% DR difference between NF and the worst short CD tank skill, HoS)

The fact that this healing, affects both the Warrior AND their target (Albeit only at half capacity) is what makes the skill so strong.

Then we have the issue of basically needing it to be on a macro

Welcome to literally every Tank?

Due to FFXIV not using a dual targetting system, pretty much every tank needs a macro to effectively apply their skills to their ally.

I can sit there mashing NF macro and my character sits there like a brick while my co-tank gets a tankbuster to the face and NF refuses to go off.

And now you can still pop your NF and heal them after the fact...

Unlike every other Tanks skills which won't do anything if your macro fudges up and you don't land it before the tankbuster... (But hey, at least a GNB can pop Aurora which might tick once before a healer tops them off!)

And lets talk about brutal shell... did you forget you get a shield on top of the heal to? People tend to forget that but its okay.

The heal doesn't get passed through HoS. Only the shield does. Which, might not be so bad, but it's 50:50. Overall the same potency as WAR/DRK combo heals, but half a heal and half as a shield and only that shield part is granted to the ally when you use HoS.

Even if you argue NF is 'okay' its not the best OT skill, that goes to DRK hands down. Its a strong shield, faster cooldown than NF, can be used on themselves or their co-tank, and hey, you don't over cap or get a diminishing return if you don't get healer shield.

"have you done savage E2S? There are tankbusters now that target both tanks"

[Lucy_Pyre]

I don't understand, we have people complaining about Nascent Flash being bad? *scratches head*

Sure, the actual healing amount is variable since it's based on damage and in the absolute worst case scenario (you can only spend Maim, Heavy Swing, and Storm's Path/Eye on it) the heal amount is negligible, you should more or less always have at least one charge of Infuriate ready to use, so any time you need a big chunk of healing you'll be able to get at least around 30-35k minimum (which is just a few thousand HP below what TBN mitigates for on a full 470 tank with food+party buffs). The skill only gets stronger and stronger if we factor in its higher potential healing amounts when used during the burst portions of your rotation. The rough maximum that NF is capable of healing for is around 85k HP if used with 2 Inner Chaos charges and an IR Fell Cleave + Upheaval. Granted, its need to be used lining up perfectly with that is more or less extremely unlikely to ever happen. Regardless, even if you just use it during IR and get 3x FC and an Upheaval in the heal that'll still be around 65k-ish, or almost double what TBN mitigates for.

I just don't understand how anyone can attempt to argue that Nascent Flash is anything but the strongest cooldown in the game next to The Blackest Night, because its power is ridiculous when used properly and especially if it lines up with your burst.

[BluexBird]

Nobody is saying that NF is a bad skill. They just don't like the fact that we have to use it on a party member in order to get its benefits.

We want to be able to cast it on ourselves so that it's usable in the open-world, and in situations where the whole party is dead and fight is almost over.

But for me, the absolutely most best thing is if they changed it so that if we cast it onto a party member, they get the full healing effect (while we get nothing). That would make it a proper support ability. But just as long as we're also able to use it on ourselves, people will be happy.