FFXIV is just FFTA from the other perspective

[MikkoAkure]

Lahabrea called Zodiark also the one true god in the cutscenes, strange since they should know that he is no true god. And of course he would see her as a threat since she split the original world and keeps Zodiark in a prison.

On one hand, it seems that the writing team wrote ARR without too much of an endgame and a lot of plot points are retroactive. Just like how they’ve admitted they had no idea what the Heart of Sabik is when they wrote it in and left it open-ended to be figured out later. It wouldn’t surprise me if he was a god when they started writing and then thought up the primal twist later.

On the other hand, with as powerful as they are, Zodiark and Hydaelyn are effectively gods. And in the latest expansion Emet not only admits he’s tempered, but in the same side-dialogue goes as far to say that the Ascians only exist to spread Zodiark’s rule of darkness. After that, it’s harder to believe what Emet later says about wanting to complete the rejoining so that they can bring Zodiark back so that he can bring back all the dead who were sacrificed in his summoning. Zodiark doesn’t exactly come across as the selfless type and if he does bring back all those sacrificed, it’s logical to say that they will also be tempered and free will won’t exist anymore.

Which brings me back to the original topic. I don’t think this is a reverse of FFTA because whether or not Emet is truly doing this to go back to his old world, our world will disappear if he’s successful (unlike Ivalice). And his reasoning comes with a heavy pinch of salt since he’s being controlled by a being that wants to be free to rule over everything and just happens to get what it wants by doing what Emet says will bring back his old world.

[Lersayil]

The Ascian point about being tempered, and their vehement worship of Zodiark certainly brings up some points of speculation, but I think it's too early to draw too many definite conclusions from them. Many details are left unclear about how much free will the Ascians have (tempering itself is still not completely understood as a process), or how genuine their worship is. Lahabrea or the average Ascian goon I can fully see as being tempered. Emet though? He seems to have way too much control of his higher faculties, and goes as far as to imply that the conflict ongoing is just a case of moral relativism (which is indirect admission that their goals and stance isn't an absolute).

I agree that the notion of Tactics and 14 are similar on some points, but due to lore and moral implications the message behind them is different I think.

[Edax]

Which brings me back to the original topic. I don’t think this is a reverse of FFTA because whether or not Emet is truly doing this to go back to his old world, our world will disappear if he’s successful (unlike Ivalice). And his reasoning comes with a heavy pinch of salt since he’s being controlled by a being that wants to be free to rule over everything and just happens to get what it wants by doing what Emet says will bring back his old world.

And of course, there's videos on youtube pointing out that Marche could the villain of that game so Emet doesn't score any sympathy for being compared to Marche in my view.

"Is Marche The True Villain Final Fantasy Tactics Advance? - Juforade"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpo61gZsexk&t=3s

[Alleo]

The relevant lore elements have been pointed out numerous times, including within this very thread. I'd suggest simply agreeing to disagree on the matter, since as we know the development team have stated in interviews that such things are a matter of perspective and that the sundered worlds are in an unstable state. Suggesting that Hydaelyn is far from perfect should not be a controversial point.

So instead of giving the arguments its back to agree to disagree. Withholding information: That she is a primal and that they did not exist at the same time? I mean this could simply not be told because she knew that this could cause unnecessary complications? Or maybe because she simply dont know it herself? (Her summoners could have made her believe it) She does tell us the truth from her view point with Zodiark getting power hungry and being a danger to her children which would be the new lifes. Thats her whole purpose. She was not lieing to us outright, she was telling it from her view.

The game also makes it clear that she gotten weaker: Lahabrea an enemy points it out gleefully, Middy takes away our blessing out of fear that we would just make it worse and she herself stopped talking to us and even in that realm she needed a person to talk through. What her actions does show: As soon as she gets power back she lets go of Minfilia and sents her out to save the First. You can of course interpret it how you want but if even your enemy is pointing out that shielding us took her all then I doubt she is just pretending to be that way, especially when we know that primals functions on the wishes of their summoner.

This also showed that she simply cant just protect anyone all the time thus why she only saved Krile. Blaming her for that is honestly a bit surprising.

Anyways Yoshida himself has stated that he is surprised how easily people already believe the one sided story and that he is a person that waits until he gets both part. He also quite directly points out that the Ascians still kill billions of lifes, so no matter the reasons they are doing genocide.

On one hand, it seems that the writing team wrote ARR without too much of an endgame and a lot of plot points are retroactive. Just like how they’ve admitted they had no idea what the Heart of Sabik is when they wrote it in and left it open-ended to be figured out later. It wouldn’t surprise me if he was a god when they started writing and then thought up the primal twist later.

True, they even said that when they finished with the WoDs in HW that they had no clear idea what to do with them. So in the end I will wait what Hydealyn will tell us because maybe those words she spoke as Minfilia also still was under the concept of them being gods, which later can simply be retconned into her thinking that way or simply fearing that we might turn on her. (Which could end quite badly for everyone else)

[LineageRazor]

Which brings me back to the original topic. I don’t think this is a reverse of FFTA because whether or not Emet is truly doing this to go back to his old world, our world will disappear if he’s successful (unlike Ivalice). And his reasoning comes with a heavy pinch of salt since he’s being controlled by a being that wants to be free to rule over everything and just happens to get what it wants by doing what Emet says will bring back his old world.

In fairness, we don't actually know WHAT Zodiark wants, if he wants anything at all. Everything that he's been portrayed as doing have been things that his summoners have asked of him. He's basically a big ol' genie, granting wishes. Those wishes come with a heavy price tag, but each time they've been prices his summoners have been willing to pay. If there's anything that Zodiark HIMSELF wants, we know nothing of it. Does he want to be free? We don't know. Does he want to spread his rule of darkness? His followers certainly want him to, but is it something he himself desires? Also worth noting: a "rule of darkness" is not necessarily a bad thing. Darkness does not represent evil, in this world. It represents change, and stands opposed to light, which represents stagnancy. Certainly, rampant and uncontrolled change can be a bad thing - but we've also seen what happens when light gets out of hand...

[Cilia]

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While I agree on principle, further argumentation is pointless; we're dealing in the realm of possibilities, therefore evidence and reason are useless.

Is it possible Hydaelyn is duping us, playing at weakness so we'll fight her battles for her and such? Sure, but there's lots of evidence to the contrary; just the same, what we know of her suggests she isn't interested in tempering people and eating aether, and there are a number of primals that also display deviant behavior (Ramuh, Alexander, Susano'o), but she is a primal. (That her raison d'etre is ensuring life exists to do something beyond become Zodiark's food, assuming everything Hythlodaeus' shade told us is true, doesn't seem to register.) I agree that Hydaelyn can be shady at times, and some of the information she's given us is not consistent with the information Emet-Selch gave us, but until we have a nice long chat with her I'm of the mind it's fair to give Hydaelyn the benefit of the doubt.

Anyway. Both sides are firmly entrenched in their beliefs (heh), and no amount of evidence or argumentation is going to change that; the only thing that really can is information straight from the source, assuming an unbiased source even exists.

So let's just agree to disagree, even if that means not arguing against a position we disagree with! Takes both sides, y'know. (I am aware of the hypocrisy of this post; do not point it out to me.)