My idea for the WHM III

[CrimsonGunner]

My comments on what will and won't see use are based on math and the numbers given. If I have a choice between 50 potency and 900 potency in an attack, pretty sure I'm gonna pick the 900 potency every time. As for medica, it's still a downright nerf. Near as I can tell, it has two components: a steady 50 potency for 100 MP a tic, and triggering a 100 potency regen for 15 seconds from Cure IV. The first part of this is straight up useless, 50 potency a tic is a laughable amount of healing, and costing twice as much MP as its potency makes it by far the most inefficient heal MP-wise in the entire game.

it isn't a tic which is every 3s ,its every sec meaning a tic= 150 potency.

[Volkaj]

it means a buff effect

Why would you ever want to remove a buff from someone?

[CrimsonGunner]

Why would you ever want to remove a buff from someone?

from a mob/boss that the buff will empower, its not from an ally. that is why i gave it a huge cd.

[CrimsonGunner]

My comments on what will and won't see use are based on math and the numbers given. If I have a choice between 50 potency and 900 potency in an attack, pretty sure I'm gonna pick the 900 potency every time. As for medica, it's still a downright nerf. Near as I can tell, it has two components: a steady 50 potency for 100 MP a tic, and triggering a 100 potency regen for 15 seconds from Cure IV. The first part of this is straight up useless, 50 potency a tic is a laughable amount of healing, and costing twice as much MP as its potency makes it by far the most inefficient heal MP-wise in the entire game.

i should also correct u since u assume blood lily will be availble every 90s like it used to but in fact blood lily can come even sooner with the gcd and tetra and even probably more then 2 times during 90s so its important to have a skill u can use to burn it.

[Volkaj]

from a mob/boss that the buff will empower, its not from an ally. that is why i gave it a huge cd.

90%+ of bosses just don't have buffs, and when they do, removing them would completely change the fight.
Off the top of my head, think about what would happen if you removed Ancient Double in the first phase of Hades EX.

Either bosses are immune and the skill is effectively useless, or this is OP and janky as heck.

[CrimsonGunner]

90%+ of bosses just don't have buffs, and when they do, removing them would completely change the fight.
Off the top of my head, think about what would happen if you removed Ancient Double in the first phase of Hades EX.

Either bosses are immune and the skill is effectively useless, or this is OP and janky as heck.

i don't mind ,it could even be like esuna or be to specific moments usefull on that part i keep the skill as is without change since its one of the skills i want white mage to have.

[CrimsonGunner]

ty again for the comments ,sorry that i didn't answer in full but i was busy so i will try to answer about those decisions i made.
as i said i won't be changing those skills according to what u say since i disagree but ty none the less for the reviews.

critique.

first the radius,yes its radius is the same as medica and as i said before even with 15r it none the less vital to have target to allow white mage to cast it wherever he is in range of party member.the point of this is basically its your only spam-able GCD AOE healing in my rework idea,since medica and medica II are not there to be burst aoe heals and assize and rapture aren't spam skills ,Cure II/IV will be white mage only GCD spam aoe skills he can do. the targetable is to allow white mage his freedom of positioning without actually suffering from not receiving heal from it due to short radius however as i said before it at a cost of 2 spamable gcd aoe. even though u dont agree i believe that medica and medica II as gcd are redundant to be identical in effect to existing cure III which is why i decided to change medica to be like that in my rework.

as for enchantment remark, as i said when i tied blood lily to gcd and tetra it allow white mage to gain blood lily alot faster then now which is after 90s minimum since that how long it take to generate 3 lilys for the skills.
meaning u can gain blood lily now with 6 gcd or even less as much as 2 gcd and 1 ogcd making blood lily skills to be alot more accesible. while it is idle to prioritize fluid aura to the glare effect as i inteded it doesn't reduce the bonus effect glare gives since fluid aura only deals 60 potency burst damage and while it does have a dot effect you might not want to apply it in certain fights when there is a limited amount of dots u can apply so instead making glare deal 350 compare to 60 potency is a big difference in that regard and sometimes it might be for that player if he wants more burst then dots depending on how the fight goes.

reflect could be ogcd but protect and shell will remain as gcd and the reasons are:
1.i dont want to fill white mage with ogcd.
2. protect and shell dont need to be similar to scholar sacred soil or fay illuminate ,white mage is still a mage in my view and spells like those need to be on his gcd. wheter it good or not ,agree to disagree but as u said they are indeed counters to aoe attacks and they will still function like that regardless ogcd or not and in the scripted fights while it may burn a gcd but it might be worth it to do so in order to save a heal.

now for medica, medica works like a stance that u can turn on and off at will at any time and yes only when medica is on is when cure IV gain the regen effects as written.(making it almost identical to medica II except cure IV has stronger burst heal and has range)
as i wrote in a previous post it isn't 50 potency per tic ,it is as written and 50 potency healed every second and since a tic is 3's it makes 1 tic gain 150 potency heal.
now since it like a stance that drain mp it purpose is to not remain long so to not drain mp however it doesn't mean it can't stay since white mage have thin air that allow 20s free mp allowing medica to remain for 20s without care of mp drain.

while the duration is indeed a good point,the aoe on the other hand is not something i want since then it will make valor and fate identical to AST divination party buff in a way or SCH chain strategem in a way and that is something i thought before but in this version i want white mage to be different from those spells and be more of a single target strong enchanter which is why i will consider increasing the duration but not turning them to aoe buffs.

Plenary Indulgence mp cost isn't without any reason, it isn't to simply justify 10% healing increase its also about spam-able confession and stacked with medica.
just like medica ,Plenary Indulgence is also like a stance however since this is more about increasing burst healing i thought it should be a stance that serve just that which is why it has a healing potency increase however since it can be used to refresh confession and could be used along side medica giving that skill to be able to stack with thin air will feel too broken to use especially since it is toggle skill so to compensate i made it more mp drain and to allow white mage to resource his mana when staying in that mode.so to summerize the advantages are it grants confession when u want,can be stacked with medica and increase healing potency so the downside is actually being mp draining ability without the use of thin air to ignore its heavy cost. medica and Plenary Indulgence weren't made to be used for long and in fact designed to be turned on and off so to not drain white mage mp and give him a bit more of mp management to him back.(so im fine if people turn on and off the skills its just means they wont get the 10% increase and heal effects).

about enchantment not see the light of day as i said before i disagree since blood lily is much more frequent then misery cd i doubt it but again agree to disagree

about the cd i think 5s is too much to reduce from its timer so i will stick with 1 second unless i will think of something else for that trait.

lastly about dispel and the wings, i actually thought of taking that animation and add it to medica or Plenary Indulgence to show u are using those stances ^^.

[CrimsonGunner]

list of notes

now then let me put my glass on as well

1. regen is indeed the most potent gcd heal white mage has but it also instant and quite spam able so if i were to add him it will norish even lower so i decided to drop that for now.

2.as i said before since u can gain blood lily from both gcd(solace ,rapture and both cures) and ogcd it makes blood lily be available much more frequent and faster then misery 90s cd,so as i said before i disagree with that.

3.true over healing feels bad when there is no point to it and to veteran healers however when white mage need to be friendly to new healers and easier to use i think that over heal restriction can be forgiven especially if it contributes to dps and to support rather then now that it contributes nothing, allowing those that are new to the role to adjust more easily and gain experience and control over healing(until they move to scholar or astrologian if they feel like it).

4. true when at dps scenarios u will still want to spam glare and dia more but in the spirit of dps ,healing will be able to contribute more to dps in the form of using support spells,misery or even buffing ur spells making it less painful to "waste" gcd on anything else and using tetra allows u to even continue spamming glare while charging ur blood lily so if u are looking for optimizing it might even be good for u to use heals once in a while without being "punished" for it for said scenarios. (again that is how i see it)

5.cure I->III and cure II->IV is identical to summoner ruin->ruin III and ruin II->ruin IV so i think it might actually confuse him less if he comes from a dps class especially from a ACN/SMN/SCH.

6.reflect is indeed on a target.

7.true that there is no range ,that is indeed my fault on that so i will write it here and edit it there afterwards. cure IV the range is 30y as cure III and radius is 15y as medica as i explained in the previous post,it is to compensate for making cure IV the only spam-able gcd in the rework.

8.yes they are gcd and yes they are a bit inferior to AST and SCH alternative but they aren't to come to be identical to AST or SCH alternative.as i said white mage is still a mage and its how i want him to still feel hench the 1s cast time.

9.as i explained before ,the effect is still identical to medica II regen effect from 5.1 patch turning cure IV to medica II only with range and a stronger burst heal. dont forget it is still a gcd not ogcd and as for AST/SCH spells their potencies can always be adjusted. making gcd much more powerful then ogcd turn the gcd to much more rewarding as i see it.

10.u could spam only misery but like i said blood lily can pop more then every 90s minimum so not using valor/fate i think will be wasteful and a dps lost.

11.the trait could still be changed,if u have better effect i could hear it but as i said before i think 5s is overkill so i left it with 1s

12. as i said before boon effect means a buff and even if that skill wont see the light of day in most fights like esuna does its one of the top skill i absolutly want white mage to have. it won't matter to me if it will be niche or redundant it is one of the spell i truly wish he would have since its one of his most iconic spells along side reflect ,protect and shell that i really wish he could have.

again ty for reading my rework idea and reviewing it ^^,hope to see maybe your ideas here as well

[Volkaj]

snip

1. Regen is a GCD heal, without a cooldown, just like Cure. Both are just as available.

2. Assuming you're using Tetra and every Lily on cooldown, you get 4.5 Blood Lily 'charges' per 90s. Since Cure spells are only worth half, you would need 3 Cure spells on top of that to get 6 charges to be able to burn 3 on something else than Afflatus Misery. The problem here is that Afflatus skills are still a DPS loss. So any optimization will still want to snuff them out or at least minimize their use. In very heavy hitting content like Ultimate you might end up with a Blood Lily with Misery on cooldown, but that's rather unlikely and the paltry 300 potency you'll get back from the DoT on Fluid Aura (by far the best case) will make you really hope you can still line up the next Misery.

3. Newbie WHMs will still be told to use Tetra on cooldown. Just like Assize is to be used on cooldown for its damage component. You have to understand that for a healing spell or ability contribute to DPS but to be still left available as healing it has to deal less damage than you would do just DPSing. Otherwise its a DPS ability with a healing component. If you have Tetra give 1/3 of a Blood Lily, using Tetra on cooldown will be like using Assize on cooldown.

4. Aside from now spamming Tetra on cooldown, this rework makes no changes to WHM's DPS rotation (outside fringe cases with 2x Blood Lily). Which is kind of the sore point of this whole expac.

5. Except on SMN those are all single-target direct damage GCDs and using the highest numbered one is always better as soon as you get Ruin III. Your reworked Cure I/III - II/IV have completely different use cases.

(split due to char limit)

[Volkaj]

7. Then it is flat out overpowered compared to SCH/AST's tools. This is similar to boosting the current Cure III range to 15y.

8. I highly doubt they'd get used at all outside super-heavy mitigation requirements (Ultimate).

9. If you boost SCH/AST to compensate then the numbers are meaningless to compare with. Might as well buff/nerf everyone across the board. Assuming SCH/AST aren't buffed to hell to compensate, this is still a 1050 potency GCD AoE heal without any cooldown to speak of. Don't fall into the trap of thinking OGCD heals are always superior to GCD heals. What wins is the most efficient heal. The one with the lowest opportunity cost (DPS and cooldown). In practice, this heal would be more efficient than any AoE Aetherflow-based heal SCH has. Without any cooldowns to worry about. Any SCH cohealer with you would just blow every Aetherflow on Energy Drain or better, switch to SMN. This is overpowered. You really want WHM solo healer to be the meta, and to spam this one combo for every raidwide?

10. Lemme do some of the math and you'll see what I mean. Assume you have the perfect scenario. You pop this on a DPS right on their burst phase, and it effectively increases their damage by ~10%. Right now, a ~99 percentile DPS doing their opener will do around ~30k DPS. Add 10%, that's +3k over 10s, so about 30k damage total. A crit Broil III is ~30k, or around 420 potency. In the absolute best scenario, this deals 120 potency more than just using Fluid Aura. In any realistic scenario you're better off using Fluid Aura or even just waiting on Misery cooldown.

11. Just like fights are heavily scripted, optimal healing (and mitigation) is always well planned in advance. If you want something RNG you could give Glare/Dia a chance to give a Blood Lily charge, since that doesn't affect your healing plan.

12. It would be completely useless in 90% of fights. Until a boss appears which uses a buff, where WHM would completely trivialize the fight. This is a bad idea.

As for my ideas, well I have a Google doc, but I need to re-think some of the WHM stuff after review from a static buddy.