In Defence of DPS meters.

[Paidhi]

Thats just it in FF, yet when you purpose this to the majority it's met with disdain. If we can make it so people at LEAST see thats it's their own mistake then they'll be more willing to fix it.

Why should they have to adapt to your concept of fun? They are not interested in fixing a thing it is not ever an issue to them.

[ForteNightshade]

Again, many players don't value the numbers more than the having fun with a player they enjoy playing with.

Why should they have to adapt to your concept of fun? They are not interested in fixing a thing it is not ever an issue to them.

Then don't join harder endgame content if you aren't willing to contribute at a decent level. Why does their fun trump everyone else's? Those other players aren't there to entertain you but to clear the content reasonably efficiently. If you can't perform decently, you're making it less fun for them. Which is selfish.

To put another way. If your goal is to simply have fun and not worry about your damage. Go find a group or FC of like-minded people. If it comes to a point you can't clear because no one is putting in a serious effort, maybe you'll discover why that mentality isn't appreciated by others.

[Shurrikhan]

Again, many players don't value the numbers more than the having fun with a player they enjoy playing with.

Cool strawman, bro. Nothing about parsing means you value numbers over people. Nothing about not parsing means you value people over numbers.

My being literate does not mean I value books over people. My being able to see the full visual spectrum does not mean I value colors over people.

The difference is simply one of informedness due to access to convenient information. That is all.

[Paidhi]

Then don't join harder endgame content if you aren't willing to contribute at a decent level. Why does their fun trump everyone else's? Those other players aren't there to entertain you but to clear the content reasonably efficiently. If you can't perform decently, you're making it less fun for them. Which is selfish.

To put another way. If your goal is to simply have fun and not worry about your damage. Go find a group or FC of like-minded people. If it comes to a point you can't clear because no one is putting in a serious effort, maybe you'll discover why that mentality isn't appreciated by others.

Ofc, I agree 100% with that. I'm not defending in any way any player that expects to be carried, that's unpolite and rude.

[Paidhi]

Cool strawman, bro. Nothing about parsing means you value numbers over people. Nothing about not parsing means you value people over numbers.

My being literate does not mean I value books over people. My being able to see the full visual spectrum does not mean I value colors over people.

The difference is simply one of informedness due to access to convenient information. That is all.

Yes, that sentence was not exact. Im not English native... Maybe: "many players enjoy interaction more than gaming skill" sounds good?. I hope you get my point.

[Angus-Beef]

Here is the problem, which is assuming that people will stop doing PUGs just because they want to clear the maximum amount of content. That's what some players will do, but many will not, because they value socialization and casual fun over pure game achievement.

Then THEY should stay away from pugs that are there for learning and clearing fights. PUGGING is not for the nuggets who don't want learn and improve and just *have fun*, at that point they're the ones encrouching on people who *have fun* By clearing.

So lets sum this up, look at everything we've all said to you, and let the people who don't want to clear know to stay out of Savage and EX parties from now. And when this community is segregated, have fun with the ones who can't clear anything, and enjoy them complaining about content being too hard. And just to bring it back on point of this thread topic, They'll never had to see a damage meter 3rd party or other wise ever again.

Problem solved yeah?

[Paidhi]

Yeah, it is really that simple. And there is no need to use the future tense. This separation between hardcore and casual communities did, does and will always exist, because they look for different things in the game. Not better or worse, just different.

[VictorTheed]

Id like a in game parser, I'm on PS4 and don't have access to this stuff, plus I don't know if it's against the TOS to ask a PC player to parse me so I just don't bother to ask, don't wanna chance things I don't know.

[Shurrikhan]

Yes, that sentence was not exact. Im not English native... Maybe: "many players enjoy interaction more than gaming skill" sounds good?. I hope you get my point.

I think I get what you're pointing towards, but even that general idea doesn't quite make sense. The more skill one has, the more interactions are available to you. Granted, not all of those interactions are socially entertaining, which seems to be what you're looking for, but they're a start. Player skill and higher skill ceilings, especially where not particularly relevant to cutting edge content, makes for "wow" moments that can entertain your party. Player skill across your party can allow for situations with more numerous and deeply manipulable factors that can better invite coordination and interdependence, creating distinctly team-based exciting and/or comedic play. Though there are fewer now than once, much of skillful play is alike to silent nods to other players.

When the tank takes a minor AoE over costing his melees their positionals, when the Paladin uses one of his Requiescat casts to Clemency himself since the healer has no oGCDs coming up and is currently in the middle of going ham, when (formerly) a Samurai would adjust rotation slightly to snap a Slashing debuff onto the add just as it appears right before the Warrior's Inner Release phase (which would otherwise have to be delayed to get Storm's Eye up), there's a sense of "I see what you're doing, and I'm going to do what it takes to let that happen."

Though, again, less important these days, getting up to speed and then turning an eye onto your teammates to support them has always been a fun and largely community-minded part of the game. Yes, there are optimal plays that oblige those interactions at the highest levels, to the point of "Why didn't you delay you Storm's Eye so I could could open with a full-power Midare on the add?!", but even among Savage raiders alone, there would appear to be more in the minutia of gameplay (not pre-play, as in composition choices, especially if/when noticeably imbalanced), at least beyond basic competency, that players are thankful to get than butthurt not to get.

Tl;dr:
Many like seeing gaming skills from other players precisely because it allows for more interaction between themselves and others, and in a more reasonable and reciprocal manner (rather than the mere "interaction" of carrying and being carried or taking unnecessary damage and finally having something to GCD-heal).