Suggestion to developers for end game

[Dagger021206]

Merit points were merely a compensation for how FFXI's level cap was frozen at 75 for eight years and never increased until after Tanaka left SE - as FFXIV raises it's level cap ten levels every two years or so (when a new expansion launches), there is no need for such a system there. Maybe when we reach level 99 in 5 years or so, but until then I don't see it happening.

I can be wrong, but from what I understand, they still have it in ffxi even after they raised the cap to 99. The point is that it adds a reason to level that lasts. Its basically progression that doesn't end for MOST players. There will always be a few that get everything done.

1: Honestly, I would love *expert* dungeons to feel like expert dungeons, they're hard and require good team play, not mindless tanking and spanking.

2: Make PvP its own endgame, I remember the old days in wow when you were a pvper or raider, both were viable endgames and you didn't need to do one for the other. I think the player base would enjoy that.

3: On top of harder dungeons, make them less linear but not ARR less linear, intuitive dungeon design would do amazing for better endgame dungeons, and given how we're only getting one now, this could be used as a form of difficulty over just making bosses outright damage sponges. Environmental aspects, crowd control, that could make runs so much more interesting and involved.

4: Raids beingess trial like and having all bosses in one run, not constantly zoning out and back in.

Nothing wrong with those ideas. I was trying give a suggestion as a possible reward system for what SE is already doing and seems to be okay with continuing. Which for the record I like them continuing.

[Razard]

It confuses me every time when people consider 6 months a short amount of time...

[Dagger021206]

. Do you truly really, as you said, enjoy end game fights if all it takes to demotivate you doing them is the gear becoming obsolete too fast ?

But eh, dont get me wrong, i know very well a big part of the community is rewards driven. Just look at the number of people doing ShB fates now, despite fates being an all time despised content. I did never see so much players doing the previous expansions ones.

There are lots of that people enjoy doing, but when trying to decide what to do, a reward does help. For example, if I'm deciding to do the new tier of raiding in ffxiv or perhaps play Nier Automa. I'll choose Nier Automa because I gain something at the end that lasts (the story). A reward would help me choose ffxiv over other things that I enjoy.

[Dagger021206]

I thought the point of endgame was the challenge ....

For many it is. But for others, the challenge is only worth doing if there is some reward involved with it. There are many different type of gamers, and one of the gamer types, there needs to be some sort of progression to enjoy doing it. Its the different between people who like linear (story based games) compared to those who like open sand box. This is an example of different gamer types. https://www.gamasutra.com/view/featu...a_.php?print=1

[Dagger021206]

as long as the gear system remains in a vertical progression pattern OP will never be satisfied. you cannot balance the game around horizontal gear type bonuses. and if you didnt know balance is everything to the devs (even though it may not look like it in some cases). maybe when we are at like level 99 for years then the system might change.

Never say Never. I often come accross ideas that I never though of that I liked, and I do enjoy the challenge of end game stuff. I'm merely giving suggestions that I know myself and many other gamers in my play type would enjoy.

Horizontal and vertical both have pros and cons. At least with vertical progression there's always something to work towards, even if it gets made obsolete every 6 months. With horizontal there's a chance you'll hit BiS in, say, HW, and nothing added in StB or ShB is better, so that's two expansions where you have nothing to work with.

I admit best in slot and meta is always a threat, but that happens even now. As long as SE makes tweaks and make content viable with any jobs like they've been doing, its a largely a mute point.

[Dagger021206]

OP, what you're asking for with gear already exists with the glamour system. When you boil down BiS gear, it's just stats. The glamour system basically allows you to slap those numbers onto whatever piece of gear you want so long as it is within your character's restrictions. Scored yourself a piece of i470 gear, but love your Cleric's robe from ARR? No problem. Glamour the Cleric's Robe over your new gear, and done. I find vertical progression along with a solid glamour system to be far superior to horizontal, especially in terms of keeping players motivated, or getting them to come back from a hiatus.

If the fights, story, loot, challenge, and ilv progression isn't enough to keep you motivated, already having BiS that you got from a 50/60/70 level raid isn't going to put your butt in there either.

New gear consistently being churned out is a very good thing. Even as it becomes outdated it increases the options of our available glamours. The YoHRa gear and 2B outfits that are so popular right now wouldn't even exist if this game worked as you suggest. That is an antiquated mmo style nearing on two decades in age.

I used to agree with you on the glamour aspect and its an example of an idea I would never of thought of. But at this point in the game life cycle, there are so many cool looking weapons that adding another "pretty" isn't the same as character progression. A lot of what i'm talking about is character progression. Also to quote myself from earlier what you said is enough to keep many players active or returning. But there are also large group of players that it is not. There are different types of gamers and I'm trying to give constructive ideas to add a little horizontal progression for those who enjoy that.

[DrWho2010]

there has to be a purpose to implement other than just "if players would enjoy that". there has to be meaning behind it. would it be nice? sure. is it necessary? no.

it's more likely a waste of dev time because it does not fall within their ideas they have about stats on gear.

[Xatsh]

It confuses me every time when people consider 6 months a short amount of time...

In the life of a 10-12+yr mmo it is short. Less then 10% of the games life.

[Omymy]

FFXIV endgame is glamour. And maybe some housing.

Sad but true.

[Deusteele]

Sigh, we just had this conversation a few weeks ago.

Hard no to any kind of level cap progression. Don't need to level to the expansion level cap only to find that half my job's abilities are locked behind a pointless grind timegate. This game has gone six years, half it's expected lifetime without any need for such a BS system. We don't need any systems like these for a least another five years and maybe not even then.