PLDs: You have Clemency for a reason.

[Aurelius2625]

Why. Are. You. People. Feeding. This. Troll?

Fools that actually believe clemency is a viable skill outside of raid progression...are idiots.

Death before clemency. You have: Reprisal, 2 Sheltrons, Rampart, Sentinel, Hallowed Ground, and Arm's Length. Hell, you can even use PASSAGE OF ARMS lol, even though that puts you in the same problem as clemency so...

I mean, in dungeons I guess it doesn't matter, it's a gcd's worth of a HS so it's 525 potency but who cares? Lol.

In savage PROG: Clemency before death.
In savage FARM/Reclears: Death before clemency.

[Nedkel]

The person above me is right.
No amount of clemency will save your dungeon run if the healer is struggling to heal you from 2 packs of mobs despite you using CDs properly (which should never happen since healers are overloaded with heals).
Its only 25-30k heal outside Requiecast, you will die trying no matter what.

[MerlinCross]

Why. Are. You. People. Feeding. This. Troll?

Fools that actually believe clemency is a viable skill outside of raid progression...are idiots.

Death before clemency. You have: Reprisal, 2 Sheltrons, Rampart, Sentinel, Hallowed Ground, and Arm's Length. Hell, you can even use PASSAGE OF ARMS lol, even though that puts you in the same problem as clemency so...

I mean, in dungeons I guess it doesn't matter, it's a gcd's worth of a HS so it's 525 potency but who cares? Lol.

In savage PROG: Clemency before death.
In savage FARM/Reclears: Death before clemency.

Then why not delete it and get it over with?

[Bright-Flower]

The person above me is right.
No amount of clemency will save your dungeon run if the healer is struggling to heal you from 2 packs of mobs despite you using CDs properly (which should never happen since healers are overloaded with heals).
Its only 25-30k heal outside Requiecast, you will die trying no matter what.

It's not every run but I've prevented wipes in dungeons by using clemency when the healer goes down, I assume it'd work just as well if the healer is alive but just faffing about instead of healing properly. Still situational though.

[Yorumi]

Then why not delete it and get it over with?

You seem the quite heavily misunderstand what a FF paladin is and how their skills work. A paladin's healing has almost always been very situational and rarely if ever used in battle. The heal has always come with sufficient opportunity cost, that is the cost of not doing another action, to push it to sufficient rarity. In FF1 the heal was mostly for topping off after battles to save the mp of the healers. This is true of almost every instance of the paladin this is the case, if the heal is used in battle it's in desperation. The only real example I can think of to the contrary is the FF11 paladin who used it to draw agro.

None of this, however, suggests that a paladin's ability to heal is not absolutely iconic to the job. What you're actually suggesting to people is that pld and rdm should have their identity as a job utterly ripped away and thrown in the trash just because some skills are used more frequently than others.

[kujoestars]

Wow, a lot of back and forth on a vent thread. I can't say I'm familiar with most jobs as a noob WoW refugee, but I can safely say that we can't always get what we want, especially not on random groups. And the way OP phrased things made it sound like something that happens to them a lot but turns out it's just one bad run with an.....overzealous tank.

Honestly, this is why I try to pay attention to what every mob does when I do dungeons for the first time as a DPS. That way, I know which mobs are the annoying ones and can factor it into how much I should pull if I ever roulette into that dungeon as a tank later. I only do extreme wall-to-walls if I know the trash don't have any annoying aoes that could overlap and wreak havoc on the whole party (or worse get me and the healer killed). And my general rule of thumb is not to pull more than 10-12 mobs at once regardless unless a good number of them are those super easy to kill trash that die in about 3 hits from aoes

I think it's important for all players regardless of role to adapt to their respective situations instead of constantly expecting everyone to have the same playstyle. I think lack of communication is the problem with OP's run (at least they didn't seem to mention anywhere whether or not they asked the tank to slow down a bit). And honestly, I would be more sympathetic if the tank had yelled at them or anything for not healing fast enough, but that does not appear to be the case as far as I can tell.

[Lucy_Pyre]

Wow, a lot of back and forth on a vent thread. I can't say I'm familiar with most jobs as a noob WoW refugee, but I can safely say that we can't always get what we want, especially not on random groups. And the way OP phrased things made it sound like something that happens to them a lot but turns out it's just one bad run with an.....overzealous tank.

Honestly, this is why I try to pay attention to what every mob does when I do dungeons for the first time as a DPS. That way, I know which mobs are the annoying ones and can factor it into how much I should pull if I ever roulette into that dungeon as a tank later. I only do extreme wall-to-walls if I know the trash don't have any annoying aoes that could overlap and wreak havoc on the whole party (or worse get me and the healer killed). And my general rule of thumb is not to pull more than 10-12 mobs at once regardless unless a good number of them are those super easy to kill trash that die in about 3 hits from aoes

I think it's important for all players regardless of role to adapt to their respective situations instead of constantly expecting everyone to have the same playstyle. I think lack of communication is the problem with OP's run (at least they didn't seem to mention anywhere whether or not they asked the tank to slow down a bit). And honestly, I would be more sympathetic if the tank had yelled at them or anything for not healing fast enough, but that does not appear to be the case as far as I can tell.

No, it was anything but an overzealous tank. The general way of pulling mobs in this game is "you pull until the game puts a wall up to stop you" which, in almost every dungeon from the start of HW and beyond is either 2 or 3 packs at most. There are some exceptions to this rule, but generally that is how it goes and the only times a tank should actually be pulling a single pack of mobs is if they just aren't comfortable tanking or they have a healer who isn't comfortable healing. But assuming neither of those are not the case, you pull as much as the game will allow you.

[kujoestars]

No, it was anything but an overzealous tank. The general way of pulling mobs in this game is "you pull until the game puts a wall up to stop you" which, in almost every dungeon from the start of HW and beyond is either 2 or 3 packs at most. There are some exceptions to this rule, but generally that is how it goes and the only times a tank should actually be pulling a single pack of mobs is if they just aren't comfortable tanking or they have a healer who isn't comfortable healing. But assuming neither of those are not the case, you pull as much as the game will allow you.

What I meant by “overzealous” is that the tank apparently kept pulling the same amount despite the healer clearly not being capable of healing that much. If I were that tank, after the second or third failed wall-to-wall wipe, I’d be asking if I should pull less. You know how they say insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting the result to change? Yeah, that’s what I mean by “overzealous”. This is clearly the “healer is not comfortable healing” type of situation you mentioned. I never pull only singles aside from the limitations you also mentioned.