"Concentrate" is underwhelming and weak (additional Phys. Range DPS skill)

[Fannah]

To the cost of an Additional, the best dmg bonus the skill will provide is
on Bard : +480dmg on Apex arrow (if you use it with max jauge (100))
on MCH : +400dmg on Drill or +550dmg on Drill (if the target has Wildfire and Bioblaster)
on DNC : +360dmg in AoE on Saber Dance (the best and easiest to use imo)
With 30sec CD, with so low bonus dmg, I believe it could be at least 15sec CD.

Meanwhile we could choose a skill that Bind someone for 3sec (30sec CD), or that inflicts Heavy for 5sec (30sec CD), or one that heals you 3000HP + Removal of CC (Heavy/Bind/Holmgang) (45sec CD) or one that makes all your team run away more safely (60sec CD).

It might be the very small difference in a burst between life and death of your target, but I believe it's really underwhelming, especially when magical range DPS have
Phantom Dart --> +20%dmg for 6sec (3GCD) + 1000dmg
Drain --> 600dmg and heals you 1200 minimum up to 2000dmg and heals you 4000 (2400dmg and 4800heal with Phantom Dart)
Aetheric Burst : 600dmg in AoE and " Lengthens weaponskill cast time and recast time as well as spell cast time and recast time by 10%" for 10sec.

It's a bit less comparable but melee dps has Feint that upgrade their dmg on the target by 25% for 6sec.

[Divinemights]

Since 3.0, Range jobs overpowering Meele jobs on Frontline has become an issue with the 3.0 simplified PvP system. It has becomes so problematic that nearly Meele jobs are nearly push to their extinction. You will only seeing Tanks Ranges and healers with one or 2 veterans that know how to counters

This issue is finally resolved after 4.5 when SE increase Meele survival ability without actually nerf Range jobs.

Your suggestions would not make any sense as it is not the action is weak, it is all Tank and Meele have 30% damage reduction. It has nothing to do with balancing.

[Fannah]

Just to be sure we talk on the same base, your argument only works in Frontline, while ranked Feast is a thing too. I know you talked about Frontlines only, but your overall conclusion about my suggestion leads to think the skill is ok overall. There is no such thing in Feast as Melees and Tanks having 30% dmg taken reduction (and +15%dmg inflicted).
And I talked about what other options physical ranged DPS are providing compared to Concentrate. This skill is clearly weak in almost any scenario those few dmg are unlikely to make any difference between a kill or not (even if it might technicaly happen), making it a not a worth option to bet on. Better save someone from a kill with all the other options they can get, or Heavy them so you're sure everyone can deal dmg more easily (providing more dmg then).

Edit : I played during that era of pvp, I'm not asking ranged to be as powerful as melee overall, especially in Frontline. I'm really focusing on that poor option they are given.

[BloodRubyXII]

Just to be sure we talk on the same base, your argument only works in Frontline, while ranked Feast is a thing too. I know you talked about Frontlines only, but your overall conclusion about my suggestion leads to think the skill is ok overall. There is no such thing in Feast as Melees and Tanks having 30% dmg taken reduction (and +15%dmg inflicted).

1) In regards to ranked feast, meta shapes the additionals and some are always going to be better than others, the same way in PvP rank era what you spent your points on some options were always going to be better than others, and this isn't the only game that performs in that manner in PvP, so it's not like this is anything outlandish. Guessing (well, educated guessing) you never played a lot of ranked so it's odd you'd mention it.

2) Phys ranged survivability is weak in general. That's not an issue with additionals, more their base toolkit. If you look at the melees, all except MNK have some kind of escape built into their baseline abilities. Any Additionals that are rebalanced for them should be in that direction, not for damage which aside from Bard is completely fine across all ranged jobs as a whole.

3) Playing anything other than dart/ward or ward/drain on a Summoner is extremely dangerous - but again this would be more noticeable than ever if you had any experience in ranked or LP custom. I haven't played BLM much since the changes but I imagine Swiftcast would still be a strong pick for them. Only RDM has the flexability of affording damage additionals for casters because they have an escape on multiple charges and their own shield.

[Crit]

If you're running concentrate in general there is more issues than just the additional...

[Fannah]

1) In regards to ranked feast, meta shapes the additionals and some are always going to be better than others, the same way in PvP rank era what you spent your points on some options were always going to be better than others, and this isn't the only game that performs in that manner in PvP, so it's not like this is anything outlandish. Guessing (well, educated guessing) you never played a lot of ranked so it's odd you'd mention it.

2) Phys ranged survivability is weak in general. That's not an issue with additionals, more their base toolkit. If you look at the melees, all except MNK have some kind of escape built into their baseline abilities. Any Additionals that are rebalanced for them should be in that direction, not for damage which aside from Bard is completely fine across all ranged jobs as a whole.

3) Playing anything other than dart/ward or ward/drain on a Summoner is extremely dangerous - but again this would be more noticeable than ever if you had any experience in ranked or LP custom. I haven't played BLM much since the changes but I imagine Swiftcast would still be a strong pick for them. Only RDM has the flexability of affording damage additionals for casters because they have an escape on multiple charges and their own shield.

If you played PvP (no need ranked especially), you wouldn't say Dart/Ward on Summoner as Phantom Dart is a basic skill to all Magic Ranged DPS, like Smite is for Melee DPS.

1) Of course there always will be better skills than others, but try to get my point, it's about design. I'm saying the skill is really bad to a point it's ridiculous to even make it a skill, it's like a noob trap option, and it wastes one of the 5 different options we could maybe think about. There is a difference between "being not or less viable", "being less efficient", and "just being awful/worthless". I thought it was obvious.
2) I completely agree about survivability being the best Additionals for them because of their overall kit. I didn't say the opposite. It's not a reason itself to waste an Additional slot design to a kinda fake skill.
3) As Magic Dps, I play Manaward and Drain, thx. Why do you believe I don't? I only was comparing the few skills providing dmg from the one that will take the Ranged DPS slot to compare with Concentrate. The way you talk is like you're trying to make me say things I didn't. Making up facts is not really an efficient way to get a constructive conversation.

If you're running concentrate in general there is more issues than just the additional...

I'm not running Concentrate at all and never did x) I'm just wondering why it's so weak to the point of being not a viable option at all (I don't play something I think is weak to a point it's ridiculous). You're assuming from nowhere.

Kinda tired of all this different topics about queues. No one seems interested in balance or design of it (they actually do in JP, but maybe because they're more listened). Thanks, on PvPaissa, some talk about it a bit.

[BloodRubyXII]

Yea I have no idea why I said dart/ward, because 90% of my LP since 5.1 has been as Summoner. Guess I'm still used to it not being part of the additionals. But yeah, drain/ward is pretty much mand, I screwed up and wrote that like we were in still 5.0, but the basic concept is still there. You need the survivability additional.

1) No I get your point, and it's not like I don't agree with it. The irony of the talent system in WoW being more simplified yet in PvP in the last season I queued 3s I was swapping out based on comp every game and had more choices than I ever had under the points system. I also see your point that it's a trap, but this is largely because common sense is rare in Final Fantasy and no-one thinks to take survivability defensives over offensive practically any time that's offered because now that everyone can see what you have (and this is where ranked matters, because obviously no one pays attention to that in training queue) if you run bad additionals it's pretty obvious you have no idea what you're doing and you're free medals.


2) Yea this kinda ties into one so I'm not sure whether there's a real discussion value on this point alone.

3) Assumptions are based on your post, that's why it was quoted. If you're going to believe otherwise then I'm never going to read a post from you again and just let your threads die or feed you to Crit because I had the alternative option of not wasting more than 30 seconds and just reading the title and saying "lol concentrate". The reason why I believe you don't is because Concentrate as an additional is not only the biggest waste of a slot, but the fact that any chance to it other than a survivability additional will make it worth taking is unreal. It is literally the last thing that needs work at the moment. Range additionals are good. The base toolkits are a larger issue. And considering you take Ward/Drain and not Aetheric Burst you of all people should be able to apply basic practicalities to your argument; but if you're going to cite a melee range additional as a positive for a Caster you are out of your mind. Also you don't understand the definition of "in general". Crit meant that to basically anyone who's playing with it. Ironically, now who's making assumptions? In fairness, you're from Moogle and English is thus probably not your first language, hence why you seem to be super defensive over nothing lol.

It's not that we're not interested, but you're literally tunnel visioning balancing a single additional, when there are bigger problems that came into the game at 5.0 that still haven't been solved and the fact SQEX had the audacity to tell us we'd be getting better gameplay in 5.1 and then throws self-healing at everyone and wants to turn Feast into some kind of cleave heavy bloodbath where Ninja's can jump around the map with a shield baked into it and some kind of sick vendetta against Warriors. Man, mandatory 72man FL with a max premade of 4 is even a bigger issue than this and FLs aren't even relevant. In brilliant fashion, it's likely SE will start the new season with Alex ultimate, and we've only got like a month until that happens. The last thing to waste time on is this, and I'm actually tilted at myself for putting so much effort into telling you how stupid this is.

GL on PvPaissa, you won't fare much better.

[Fannah]

Thanks for your answer

Indeed, English is not my first language, so I take the probably as a compliment (I mean, it really is from my point of view).
And I don't get what being from Moogle has to make with being too defensive over nothing (I play with my guild with only IRL friends, I could say I don't feel like I interact much with the crowd to a point it would affect me). Do we have a reputation just from being from a server? And where does it come from?

The problems of queues, the pleasure of 24 players FL gone, not playing with a full team of premade anymore and people not being able to play at all at certain hours of the day compared to how it was before are real problems, major ones, I don't deny that as I think the same and prefered the mode with 24 players, and I don't play only at peak hours. I'm more like complaining it reaches a point where no one even talk about balancing and design nor look interested into discussing it. It's great in a sense to make understand that as long as those problems are not fixed, talking about the rest is kinda superficial.
I'm not much on PvPaissa compared to here, just stating some look interested a bit about design there (not saying what is said there has any more quality over another place).

About Crit, I do believe it was a small taunt (not a hard one, it's ok) he did just in case I did take Concentrate. Overall, I mainly just wanted to answer him, but his post wasn't really making the topic going further.
Maybe I should have use a disclaimer to say I don't use the optional skill I was complaining about.


In the end, maybe SE devs actually thought only about 4 Additionals about defensive abilities, and just felt like they had to set a 5th one, and made it bad to a point they are more sure we don't pick it over the 4 others. That's a possibilty.
In that sense, yes Range Additionals are good.

"but if you're going to cite a melee range additional as a positive for a Caster you are out of your mind."
There's a misunderstood, I suppose. After I ended talking about Casters, I said : "It's a bit less comparable but melee dps has Feint that upgrade their dmg on the target by 25% for 6sec." I just edited my 1rst post by adding a space between the two topics so there's less confusion (at 1rst I even hesitated to even mention melees).

About base toolkits being an issue, I'm all for talking about it and read what people think about (I'm not the better placed to talk about it as Physical Ranged is not what I play in ranked. I considered giving it a look (to play with friends), once again only to realize how I would dislike playing one, so I was just talking about it when seeing how stupid it looked.
And of course, I'm not saying the overall balance has to be with that one single skill, but I won't start a book about the whole design of every possible point to reach an optimal balance to a point we couldn't change the game (kinda exagerating but you get the idea). I don't think I would be able to do it, especially knowing it's all new things and we all have to adapt in the first place. I was kinda wondering if anyone could have an idea of what would be an acceptable 5th Additional for them (not having necessarily to be an offensive CD). We can just keep using the rest, of course, the game won't suffer from just having that optional skill not being picked.

Anyway thanks for your time as you're the only one who seemed to give it some attention (not like another topic I made about Drain being bugged and no one reacted to it, I did an official Bug report on the game, anyway, but I was hoping someone could enlightened me about why a certain part of the bug was happening).

[BloodRubyXII]

"Indeed, English is not my first language, so I take the probably as a compliment (I mean, it really is from my point of view).
And I don't get what being from Moogle has to make with being too defensive over nothing"

Nothing, but Moogle is largely populated by French players, leading to the assumption that English is unlikely to be your first language.

"but if you're going to cite a melee range additional as a positive for a Caster you are out of your mind."
There's a misunderstood, I suppose. After I ended talking about Casters, I said : "It's a bit less comparable but melee dps has Feint that upgrade their dmg on the target by 25% for 6sec." I just edited my 1rst post by adding a space between the two topics so there's less confusion (at 1rst I even hesitated to even mention melees).

No it was right the first time, Aetheric Burst is a MELEE range ability - melee range being in terms of the yardage from where it's casted to the area it'll affect, ergo, you need to be hugging the people you intend to hit with it (basically, think of Wither or since you've played old PvP - just think of the Aetheric Burst from the old pvp rank abilities as that functioned more or less the same way). At least a decently landed wither will apply bio spread arguably more reliably than bane does sometimes. The damage from Burst is negligible, the effect sucks and the bigger insult is expecting any caster to leave the safety of casting from max y range to cast it let alone drop a defensive for it. The only job that'd reliably be able to land it and has space for the additional is Red Mage, but given the choice I'd probably get more value out of drain or addle especially in LP/Scrims.


Your get out of jail free card that I'm not even sure why I'm offering it up and making this easier for you - it'd make more sense for Head Graze and Conc to swap places than to buff Conc.