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  1. #621
    Player
    CrystalWeapon's Avatar
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    Crystal Weapon
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    Excalibur
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    LANCER Lv 50
    The only thing I've ever bashed was the time it takes to respawn. This is just from within this last week.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalWeapon View Post
    It would be fun to see some different methods of spawning nms. I personally like the idea of pop items even if the droprate is horribly low from the surrounding mobs. Sure it's a timesink but it doesn't feel like you're sitting around with your hands under your ass waiting for a spawn window to open.
    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalWeapon View Post
    Just because access time to an event or mob is short doesn't mean that the mob itself wouldn't take a massive collaborated effort to kill. Time spent waiting =/= ease of beating what you were waiting for. Completely unrelated things.

    All the obsurd timmers do is create a lack of access to said content to a sizeable portion of the playerbase so that a few people can get their thrills.
    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalWeapon View Post
    I keep hearing about people wanting things handed to them. How exactly is a monster that takes 8 highly skilled people giving everything they've got to kill that spawns every 30 mins to an hour with a 5% droprate any less difficult than a NM that takes 8 highly skilled people giving everything they've got to kill that spawns every 18 hours with a 5% droprate?

    Don't get me wrong, I fully agree that we should have big badass monsters roaming around. I just don't think they should have the same rediculous timmers. That's the only thing I'm arguing about in this thread. It doesn't make it harder it just limits the amount of people who can participate.

    Constructively adding to this topic, I fully agree with Patriarch in that it would be fun to have different ways to spawn NMs and HNMs. My favorite method being forced pops. Even if the pop item is so rare it takes you 5+ hours to farm, you are at least doing something for those 5 hours. You are also not blocking anyone else from fighting the NM for the rest of the day when you go fight it. Lotto spawns and conditional spawns would be fun too provided they aren't too ridiculous.

    Completely off topic: Everytime I see your damn name Patriarch it makes me want to go play Killing Floor >_>
    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalWeapon View Post
    Honestly some of the ideas in the OP for different ways of spawning NMs seems very interesting and fun (sans the timmed HNMs but I've said my piece on that.) I just wouldn't hold my breath for a response.
    ^ Meant specifically the timmers for the HNMs

    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalWeapon View Post
    World NMs: Yes, Please.
    Special condition pops: Yes, Please.
    Force pops: Yes, Please.
    Large timmers for the sake of a cheap thrill: Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.
    Every arguement I gave was against having these HNMs killable say once or twice every day. It was not against having HNMs. I thought I was clear, I guess I wasn't. :P

    I think the whole back and forth crap we have going about the poll is just miscommunication. The way I read is is they asked "If we change the claiming system do you want more instanced content and less claim wars?" The players voted yes that if the claim system changed they want more instanced content over fighting for loot. From that response they then changed the claim system and went with the direction of less competive PVE. I just don't see them adding in anything near the 18~24 hour spawn timmers that xi had.

    The direction they've been continuously going in is that of access to everyone. If you have the time to spend and you have the people you can try anything this game has to offer no matter what your schedule is.
    (0)

  2. #622
    Player
    Sephrick's Avatar
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    Sephrick Markarius
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    Excalibur
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    GLADIATOR Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Coglin View Post
    I didn't call you wrong because of what you said being wrong. Although it was. I called you wrong anticipating you would find the proof, which in turn prooved you were wrong.

    I know they asked a question about content that was 100% based on the changing of the claiming system.

    I knew they had already changed the claiming system before I asked you.

    I know they have no plans in the future to change the claiming system.

    I know if the question is absolutely dependent on, and specifically conditional to the claiming system changing, which we all know is not planned on happening. Then we all know your point referencing an ancient question, with non-applicable conditions, is well, not applicable.
    I was going to stay out of this thread because I honestly lost my temper about half way through and rage posted since things can be a little one-sided unless you absolutely agree.

    So don't take this as a rage post. I'm calmly and kindly asking you: What are you talking about?

    That player's poll was conducted on February 2011 and the results were posted in March 2011. The changes to the claiming system came as a result in 1.19 in September 2011. Therefore, the contingency of "if the claiming system changes" already has been met.

    Quote Originally Posted by Players' Poll the Second
    10. If the current target claiming system were done away with, would you prefer for content such as dungeons and battle to be converted into instances as much as possible?
    * "Instances" refer to those events and areas that can only be occupied by a single party, or certain characters, at once. This serves to prevent players from competing with one another for the same enemies, for example.
    By saying "yes" to Question 10, those voters were saying "if you do change the claiming system, I'd like to see content be instanced."

    Why is it that you're suggesting that unless they change the claim system again they can't focus on instanced content?

    Furthermore, I offer a post I made in another thread that I think is relevant here.

    And let me be clear, I'm not against open world content. I'm only against fighting over claim and I think that's a side that deserves attention here.

    Anyway, here's my other post:

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It's tiring seeing people continue to dismiss the Players' Poll data because "it's a year old."

    That data went to shape how Square-Enix is designing 2.0.



    This is why most things need to be instanced. The above is from SE's PDFs they released back in November.

    The idea behind 2.0's sever structure is to allow a "worldless model" to allow players to use a content finder to team up with other players no matter what server they will be on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida
    The people have spoken. As such, we'll be operating under the premise that new PvE content, such as dungeons containing sought-after loot, will be instanced. By instancing content in this way, we'll be able to reduce claim wars and counter-camping and all that. There's also the added merit of enabling the level design team to work with a clear theme in mind, and create much more engaging and challenging content.
    The whole idea behind 2.0 is to make PvE a cooperative experience. But putting major content in the open world nullifies that entire concept. What's the point in restructuring your servers and engine to allow cross-server play if your content renders it useless?

    But what about those wanting competition?



    In those same PDFs, SE listed plenty of PvP concepts they'll introduce in 2.0.

    The growth of Free Companies, a Colosseum-style arena and battle for territories in Frontlines are just some of the things we can expect to allow us to compete against our rivals in 2.0.



    Does all of this mean there shouldn't be an open world to explore? Or things like big nasty monsters in it to kill?

    No.

    But it does mean major content should be where SE is designing it to be put in 2.0. And if in response to the infamous "Question 10" they decided to create an entire server structure for content finder and cross-server play because Yoshida took the response to mean "people want sought-after-loot in instances," then that's exactly what they should do.

    But I think it's wrong to equate instances with "easy mode." Granted the game's current instances aren't exactly dynamic. But this is 1.xx, not 2.0. DD/AV/CC are proof of why we need a new engine. And Ifrit is proof of why we need a new server structure.

    1.xx isn't meant to be a sign of what's to come. It's just short-term content to say "thank you" for sticking around. Kind of like half-priced appetizers before a gourmet meal.

    I think that's why a lot of people seem to be "against" open-world content. It's not that we don't want an open world, we're just here to play the game SE's new team said they're giving us in 2.0.

    I really hope the E3 press push includes some info on what instances will be like in 2.0. Yoshida made a large boast saying "there's also the added merit of enabling the level design team to work with a clear theme in mind, and create much more engaging and challenging content."

    I also hope everyone gets a game they may enjoy. As has been mentioned, Odin is in the works as a "Wandering Primal." I just personally want to see SE do what they said they were going to do and keep the competition in PvE against the content and not other players.
    (3)

  3. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sephrick View Post
    By saying "yes" to Question 10, those voters were saying "if you do change the claiming system, I'd like to see content be instanced."

    Why is it that you're suggesting that unless they change the claim system again they can't focus on instanced content?
    My point is, that the question was based on a situation in which players had not experienced the change in the claiming system. Most were not even sure what the change meant. There mentality in answering the question was based on the premise of a system to come. Its not logical to "assume" that there answer is the same now with an actually different system. Particularly now with the influx of new players, and alot of old players gone due to the now monthly fee. We have a very different player base, and a diferent claiming system.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalWeapon View Post
    1the poll, you are exaggerating the hell out of how low the numbers were during that poll. Neither one of us know the amount of people who voted in it. Even if it were only 5k people. 79% of 5k = 3,950. 3,950 dwarfs the 144 likes in support of this idea. Just saying...
    That doesn't read to be very supporting to me

    Thats my point. At this point your promoting an question based on an unexperienced claim system. Which now, may well change the answer to that question by the current player base. A player base that is very different then the one back then. Between the now pay to play situation, and the clear influx of new players due to th word geting out about the games improvements.

    Clearly we have a very different player base with different experiences. You cannot compare the two. Thats similar to making assumptions of a president being re-elected after he had a horrible 4 years even though they currently have a very low approval rating. All the while claiming you base your predictions of the re-election on a poll taken pre-election.
    (0)
    Last edited by Coglin; 04-04-2012 at 03:20 PM.

  4. #624
    Player
    Richard_BG's Avatar
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    Oct 2011
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    Tsubaki Nakatsu
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    Excalibur
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    THAUMATURGE Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Sephrick View Post
    tl;dr version: I just personally want the competition in PvE against the content and not other players.
    see wasn't that much easier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sephrick
    The whole idea behind 2.0 is to make PvE a cooperative experience. But putting major content in the open world nullifies that entire concept. What's the point in restructuring your servers and engine to allow cross-server play if your content renders it useless?

    This is why most things need to be instanced. The above is from SE's PDFs they released back in November.
    No it doesn't. Look at GW2. Look at Tera. Look at Rift. Both have co-op open world content as well as open world competitive content. The whole idea behind 2.0 is that 1.0 fking sucked.
    Restructuring servers is not solely for cross-server co-op play. It needed to happen regardless of what content they are adding into the game. The point is they can do MORE with upgraded servers and they will be doing it.

    "Most" things don't need to be instanced, there needs to be a perfect balance between open world and instanced content. You will always lose players from one side of the coin or the other if you only offer a single type. FFXI only (really) offered open world competition and lots of people hopped over to WoW because of it. WoW only (really) offered instanced content and lots of FFXI people stayed on FFXI. Only now are we really starting to see a merging of both content types in some next-gen MMOs coming out.

    If Yoshida (and SE) we're smart they'd use this second chance, this breath of life that was given to XIV, and create content that caters to both crowds as much possible to rake them in. They are introducing pvp into a FF title which is...OK I guess - it's not really SE's strong point. I think they would have been better off putting that time and effort into making sure their PvE rooted fans we're happy first thing.
    (7)
    Last edited by Richard_BG; 04-04-2012 at 05:52 PM.
    www.bluegarter.guildwork.com
    Quote Originally Posted by Rydin View Post
    Look at you... Just when I thought I liked Carraway more (and Fusional A LOT LESS)... Richard... you're my new favorite

  5. #625
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    ThePatriarch's Avatar
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    The Patriarch
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    Hyperion
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    GLADIATOR Lv 50
    A lot of good posts.

    Sephrick, welcome back! You make a solid point, but I wish SE would rethink their strategies and try their best to make the bestof both worlds. As Richard said, if you design the game solely based off instances you are going to stave off a large amount if players from your company's prior MMO, which seems so backwards to me.

    I know it will never happen, but I would love to see the same poll taken again now, and see how people respond after experiencing FFXIV's instances system.

    Instances worlds, and open worlds need to coexist. Let us be able to get lost in the sheer amount of content the game can contain. Who knows... The instances coming in 2.0 could be amazing, I just want the open world to be there too.

    Geez these long posts on my cell phone suck.
    (3)

  6. #626
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    ThePatriarch's Avatar
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    The Patriarch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard_BG View Post
    see wasn't that much easier?



    No it doesn't. Look at GW2. Look at Tera. Look at Rift. Both have co-op open world content as well as open world competitive content. The whole idea behind 2.0 is that 1.0 fking sucked.
    Restructuring servers is not solely for cross-server co-op play. It needed to happen regardless of what content they are adding into the game. The point is they can do MORE with upgraded servers and they will be doing it.

    "Most" things don't need to be instanced, there needs to be a perfect balance between open world and instanced content. You will always lose players from one side of the coin or the other if you only offer a single type. FFXI only (really) offered open world competition and lots of people hopped over to WoW because of it. WoW only (really) offered instanced content and lots of FFXI people stayed on FFXI. Only now are we really starting to see a merging of both content types in some next-gen MMOs coming out.

    If Yoshida (and SE) we're smart they'd use this second chance, this breath of life that was given to XIV, and create content that caters to both crowds as much possible to rake them in. They are introducing pvp into a FF title which is...OK I guess - it's not really SE's strong point. I think they would have been better off putting that time and effort into making sure their PvE rooted fans we're happy first thing.
    Ah, back on a PC I can actually post!

    It is pretty interesting seeing people from multiple MMO genres merging into FFXIV. People are pretty closed-minded on alternative forms of content that is new/foreign to them. You hit it on the nail, people have been going on about how 2.0 is going to enhance the Instanced Raids we have. It will also greatly enhance the possibilities for great open world action.

    Regardless, its just hard to fathom even after all this time why SE strayed from the beaten path they had set themselves in FFXI. I think however, that between all the great ideas mentioned so far for the compromises of Instanced Content meets Open World content, that SE could make a wonderful game. I am highly anticipating 2.0, and for the sake of my future subscriptions, I surely hope that they pull through!

    Also, PvP; I'm intrigued to say the least. Ballista was (lol) kind of fun, I'm ready to see what kind of PvP they will bring into FFXIV.
    (0)
    Bring Quality Notorious Monsters to FFXIV!

    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/40738-Highly-Notorious-Monstersz


  7. #627
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    We’ve been told that there are some very interesting ideas floating around the developer’s room for notorious monster spawn conditions in 2.0! Although, I cannot tell you what they have in store for you just yet (of course, right? ), I hope this information piques your interest.

    There are a lot of great ideas in this thread so far, we would love to hear more of what you would like to see so that we can continue to share your ideas with the dev. team.
    (53)
    Bethany "Rukkirii" Stout - Community Team

  8. #628
    Player
    Rydin's Avatar
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    Rydin Reach
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    Balmung
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukkirii View Post
    We’ve been told that there are some very interesting ideas floating around the developer’s room for notorious monster spawn conditions in 2.0! Although, I cannot tell you what they have in store for you just yet (of course, right? ), I hope this information piques your interest.

    There are a lot of great ideas in this thread so far, we would love to hear more of what you would like to see so that we can continue to share your ideas with the dev. team.
    well what do you know....
    (3)

  9. #629
    Player
    Richard_BG's Avatar
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    Tsubaki Nakatsu
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukkirii View Post
    We’ve been told that there are some very interesting ideas floating around the developer’s room for notorious monster spawn conditions in 2.0! Although, I cannot tell you what they have in store for you just yet (of course, right? ), I hope this information piques your interest.

    There are a lot of great ideas in this thread so far, we would love to hear more of what you would like to see so that we can continue to share your ideas with the dev. team.
    This thread isn't for Notorious Monsters. This thread is for Highly Notorious Monsters -_-.
    (4)
    www.bluegarter.guildwork.com
    Quote Originally Posted by Rydin View Post
    Look at you... Just when I thought I liked Carraway more (and Fusional A LOT LESS)... Richard... you're my new favorite

  10. #630
    Player
    Firon's Avatar
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    Firon Veleth
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    Excalibur
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard_BG View Post
    This thread isn't for Notorious Monsters. This thread is for Highly Notorious Monsters -_-.
    I think HNM's follow the same group as normal nm's for devs I thought players made the term HNM up very much like Af when the devs keeps saying the gear we got isn't AF >.>.
    (4)

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