Highly Notorious Monsters

[Alhanelem]

The implementation of FFXI HNM system wasn't the best. It encouraged botting and required standing at one spot for hours spamming one ability every 30 mins or so.

However, bringing open world (H)NMs in XIV doesn't have to mean implementing them exactly the same way they were in XI.

Please do tell me how you could implement world spawn super bosses while totally eliminating the possibility of botting/hacking to deny others the fair opportunity to experience said super boss.

If you can come up with an implementation that solves all problems and frustrations of FFXI's system, I'm all for it.

Well sir, I think I speak for many here when I say that I am sorry that you feel the way you do. I appreciate your opinions, and hopefully you enjoy your time in FFXIV, regardless of what kind of content is implemented.

that's a really fancy way of saying. "you're wrong."

I guess if you don't like any competition of any kind between player groups, I can understand why you don't like the idea of open world HNMs.

for competition, we have PvP. competition has no place elsewhere, outside of who gets what drops when a group wins something. competing for the pull on a monster is not fun, never was fun, and never will be fun. I want to fight monsters, not watch other people fight them. there is NO skill involved in spamming your provoke macro on an NM. Taking botting out of the equation, it's simply whoever has the lowest ping or who the random claim delay hands the monster to- There's no skill involved, it's purely random luck. I'm really not sure how people find that fun. Fighting the monster itself is what's fun and it's what most of us play the game for.

[ThePatriarch]

Please do tell me how you could implement world spawn super bosses while totally eliminating the possibility of botting/hacking to deny others the fair opportunity to experience said super boss.

If you can come up with an implementation that solves all problems and frustrations of FFXI's system, I'm all for it.

Don't have every HNM exist in the open world. Make some Instanced. Possibly make a situation where said HNM roams the Open-World, but is also contained in an instance. This would make it to where people who don't want to camp it, can take their chances of trying to kill it in their own, private instance. I am not saying make all HNM in this sort, we do want some unique, stand-alone HNM's that can only be found thriving in the vast, open world.

And HNM's are the only system that has potential for botting, cheating, etc...

Crafting was being botted, Square-Enix found a way to fix that exploit.

You should never eliminate content that so many obviously have interest in solely due to the fact that someone may find a way to exploit the systems flaws. There are flaws in every system, and it is up to the developer to address, and solve those issues.

that's a really fancy way of saying. "you're wrong."

Sir, I am not saying that at all. I am just not going to spend more time arguing the point with you. This thread is solely based on opinions, and who has the power to say which person is right? No one. I appreciate your input, and I encourage more people to post. Regardless of positive/negative. I knew when I made this thread that there was going to be backlash from a few people. And honestly, we need the negative opinions on the matter to help us shape what could be a great system for FFXIV.

[Cichy]

Yes! Let's listen to the voice of reason here!

Driving a stake through the heart of a game would be not listening to a large mass of people who are calling for the implementation of HNM's. Driving a stake through the heart of a game would be not implementing MORE content that an obvious large amount of players are seemingly interested in!

/e: Before you call for the "No-Like button", I as well wish they had one. Despite that, after reading every page of this thread, and counting the "In-Favor" vs "Against" crowd, I will be generous and say there is a 25% dislike, and 75% like amonst posts in this thread. I think 75% is a pretty good percentage, and would validate the idea that maybe they should look into some form of HNM, care to disagree?

Mr. Yoshi, the above poster claims HNM's drove thousands of people away, despite the fact that the last FF MMO title with HNM's held over 500,000 people in game at one point in time. I have a hard time believing that HNM's killed FFXI, but hey, that's just my opinion!

Furthermore, it becomes even more clear that the above poster failed to read up on the thread before he posted, as per the usual. I think he failed to comprehend the many pages on how we would like to come together and bring HNM's into the game with different aspects of implementation to nullify botting, cheating, and all the negative things that can coincide. People will always find ways to exploit certain aspects of the game, this comes with Open-World, Instanced, Duping etc. This will always happen, and it is up to the developer to change the code and fix the issues, and ban the abusers. Square-Enix should not deny the game certain content for the sole reason of possible exploits, as they can be patched.

You are beyond delusional. Where do you even get all this.
Large mass of people? This game has a drop of a bucket of populations that it needs, out of that drop only fraction goes to the forum, out of that fraction only few vote for this dumb idea. I hope the devs realize that.

Alhanelem, pretty much already said most things that are wrong with your logic. There were 500k users at one point because XI was one of the only MMOs out there. And out of that like he said 1-5% ever participated in this snooze/botfest called HNMs. Most people never ever killed even a Fafnir. I've camped HNMs for 6 years, and 90% of the people were same people there. Which was 3-5 linkshells.

People need to get over the notion that claiming a NM makes you a special snowflake. You say you're only asking for something for everyone to do where one the fist page you say Open World NMs + Amazing Gears.
Amazing gear alone will create same type of environment that XI had.
You dont want to compete with anyone, you just want feel like a special snowflake once more.

Content should be based on difficulty and progression and not the best bot people have.
Content like Salvage, ZNMs, Limbus, is way to go. Have people clear something before they can advance and make it increasingly more difficult. Than even though not everyone is able to clear it/get loot, everyone has fair chance at attempting it. And this is the main problem that XI had with HNMs. You can argue all you want but 90% of the population had no chance in hell at even attempting them.

The only way I could ever see open world HNMs be implemented is give them 30min-1h rage timer and 5 min repop.
Even than, if it's amazing gear, you'll have people bot them.

[Alhanelem]

Don't have every HNM exist in the open world. Make some Instanced.

All or nothing, as far as I'm concerned. This statement doesn't address the problem. FFXI had both world spawns and popped HNMs.
FFXIV does have 'instances' that are in the normal world area. I'd be fine with that system being leveraged. Anything that doesn't deny other players who want to the chance to participate in content is fine in my book.

You should never eliminate content that so many obviously have interest in solely due to the fact that someone may find a way to exploit the systems flaws.

The forum-goers are not wholly representative of the entire playerbase. even most of the people posting in support of this thread don't support world spawn HNMs. Far more people are looking for something like BCNMs.

Crafting was being botted, Square-Enix found a way to fix that exploit.

Part of the reason I'm not a big fan of crafting. it's hard for it to be beneficial unless you do it all day or you bot so you can control the market. It's gotten a lot better lately though, i'll give it that.

IMO, if you want to be competitive, then you should be doing PvP when it comes out. Competition should be kept out of PvE except as it pertains to who gets what loot when your group kills something.

Driving a stake through the heart of a game would be not listening to a large mass of people who are calling for the implementation of HNM's

It's not a "large mass" of people that want to play HNMs. This thread, while long, is mostly a handful of people talking back and forth. that's not a "mass of people." Even if every post in this thread were made by a seperate person, it's still a drop in the bucket compared to the total playerbase.

Please don't assume that just because a thread has X number of posts on the forums, that everybody wants it. On top of that, not everyone in this thread wants the same thing.

Some people want BCNMs.
Some people want force pop NMs.
Some people want something else.

These should all be treated as seperate topics, not lumped under an umbrella and called HNMs. Those things above are not HNMs.

[Firon]

We don't make up reasons. They're valid, good reasons, and the facts are real facts, not made up.

FFXI's HNM system (again. ONLY HNMs. NOT BCNMS KSNMS ETC!!!!) was terribad. We kept doing it because we wanted the drops badly enough to keep at it, not because it was fun battling cheaters to get the claim on the monster.

BCNMs and the like are a completely seperate topic. I'd love to have those, lots and lots of them. The only thing I'm against is HNMs that are world spawns with long repop timers. Rewards from content should be rare because the content is challenging, not because you have to wait a million years just to get to experience the fight one time.

World spawning HNMs would be tolerable if they spawned frequently enough that you didn't have 100 people packed in a fishbowl all mashing provoke as hard as they can for 2 minutes every 30 minutes. But I'd still rather do BCNM/force pop content.

I know this type of guy he is the guy that calls gm's on players when they get out claimed every time. Belive it or not, not everyone botted in XI if a mob spawned purple that was your pc's fault not the game cause it could not load the monster fast enough, also after they added the 3 second rule before claiming it pretty hard to bot someone out of a claim cause they could not grab said mob w/o everyone else seeing it first.

[ThePatriarch]

The only way I could ever see open world HNMs be implemented is give them 30min-1h rage timer and 5 min repop.
Even than, if it's amazing gear, you'll have people bot them.

So you would like to create an open world setting, where all these Huge Monsters respawn in 5 minutes? What would make them unique? It would be boring, worn out content within 2 months and everyone would be back in Ul'dah twiddling their thumbs trying to find something to do.

You can question my logic all you want. Even more you can dish out some petty, immature insults.

You are beyond delusional.

None of that is going to help you here. I didn't make this thread to argue logic styles, I created this thread for people to contribute ideas on how we should implement HNM's. We aren't on BG buddy, mud slinging doesn't get you to far on here. Read through the posts and see how it worked for Sephrick and Peptaru, their arguments were a copy+paste of what you are doing right now.


Rather than contribute, or offer anything to the matter, you come into this thread and make fun of the people, and the idea. I'm sorry that you don't like it. If you are so against it, come up with another thread on why NOT to implement HNM's, lets see how much attention it gets. Then we would have a realistic way of seeing how many people are "for" and how many are "against"

[Alhanelem]

I know this type of guy he is the guy that calls gm's on players when they get out claimed every time.

I know this guy, he's the guy who baselessly labels players with no informaiton whatsoever.

I never, ever once called a GM on somebody for losing a camp. Ever. Nor did anyone else in my linkshell.

That doesn't mean I have to like botting and cheating.

I created this thread for people to contribute ideas on how we should implement HNM's.

Well, you should have created this thread with speicfic ideas for implementation, and specified exactly what you considered to be "HNMs." Because apparently, not everyone thinks of the same thing when this term comes up.

[Firon]

I know this guy, he's the guy who baselessly labels players with no informaiton whatsoever.

I never, ever once called a GM on somebody for losing a camp. Ever. Nor did anyone else in my linkshell.

That doesn't mean I have to like botting and cheating.

Do you have proof everyone botted and cheated tho? No you don't it was tons of ppl in XI that reported me or called me a bot when i played on ps2 lol.. When ppl don't get the claim they always point the bot finger.

[ThePatriarch]

That doesn't mean I have to like botting and cheating.

Well, you should have created this thread with speicfic ideas for implementation, and specified exactly what you considered to be "HNMs." Because apparently, not everyone thinks of the same thing when this term comes up.

None of us want botting. We are all for compromise, and ideas on the possibility of HNM's being implemented without the fear of botting and rampant cheating.

I agree, if I could change my thread title I would. We are not solely after "HNM's". We are after Notorious Monsters in general, whether they be instanced, roaming, force spawned, etc.

No one can deny that this game needs more content, and having a thriving open world filled with NM's would not hurt that aspect of the game.

[Taika]

Please do tell me how you could implement world spawn super bosses while totally eliminating the possibility of botting/hacking to deny others the fair opportunity to experience said super boss.

Well, for example something like this (I just made these up so don't expect any miracles of my HNM design skills ):

- There are 100 let's say mushroom type mobsters around 3 different zones. When your group kills one of these mushrooms, there's a chance a HNM mushroom will pop claimed to your party.

- A HNM in one of 10 zones some time 3-13 days of it's last death.

- When HNM pops, it will be unclaimable for random amount of time to prevent instant bot claiming (popping claimed).

I don't know how for example Dark Ixion and Sandworm worked in XI, were they bottable despite of popping in different zones? I've assumed SE tried to counter botting with their design.

Anyways, I think we all agree SE should pay close attention to all kinds of hacks and bots and cheats. I never understood why they couldn't detect botting in XI.

for competition, we have PvP. competition has no place elsewhere, outside of who gets what drops when a group wins something. competing for the pull on a monster is not fun, never was fun, and never will be fun. I want to fight monsters, not watch other people fight them.

You mean you have PvP for your competition needs and you don't need it elsewhere. Other people might prefer other kinds of competition between players and player groups, or like both. Each to their own.

there is NO skill involved in spamming your provoke macro on an NM. Taking botting out of the equation, it's simply whoever has the lowest ping or who the random claim delay hands the monster to- There's no skill involved, it's purely random luck.

Hunting HNMs in XIV doesn't have to mean (and if you ask me, shouldn't mean) standing in one place hitting macro, and I don't think anyone has asked for that.

We're not talking about bringing the FFXI HNMs in XIV as they were, but creating something new altogether.