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  1. #501
    Player
    ThePatriarch's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Character
    The Patriarch
    World
    Hyperion
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    Gladiator Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    I'd rather it not be possible at all, than be more difficult. I don't want a competition. I just want to fight and kill a monster.
    So rather than work to create a system of HNM spawn that would nullify botting, you would prefer a system to where there is no competition? You would prefer it to where there are no chances of you not getting the NM? You want everything to be assured and have no risk of not getting claim?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    The popularity of the game at the time had absolutely zero to do with HNMs. The vast majority of players never even experience one.
    So you would like to tell everyone that HNM's had absolutely zero effect on the popularity of the game at that point in time?

    And personally, I don't know many FFXI players who did not engage, at the bare minimum, a couple of HNM's during their career in game. These include HNM's like Simurgh, Roc, Serket, etc.

    And even more, during Zilart, sky was the biggest and coolest thing to do. What was in Sky? Forced pop Notorious Monsters.
    (3)
    Last edited by ThePatriarch; 04-02-2012 at 04:08 AM.
    Bring Quality Notorious Monsters to FFXIV!

    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/40738-Highly-Notorious-Monstersz


  2. #502
    Player
    Hirmu's Avatar
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    Mar 2012
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    29
    Character
    Otus Hirmuinen
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 60
    FFXIV without HNMs is like christmas without cookies: sure you might get lots of nice stuff, but in the end everything loses it's meaning and the joy of living is gone D:

    One thing I'd love is to have more dynamic HNMs. Maybe something like in Skyrim where you actually spot a dragon flying above the landscape and then you'd have to follow it around, maybe gather your LS meanwhile and see where it lands. Or there could be a way to get the dragon to land.

    Also many people seem to think that gear must always be either better or worse than every other piece. It tells something about the depth of the battle system and character development if it's somehow very difficult to create gear pieces that aren't directly comparable to each other. For example, in FFXI as PLD there were different sets for magic def, DD, fast cast, enmity, HP, sets for tanking as /WAR, /NIN, /RDM etc. and you couldn't say that a piece in my DD set was somehow better than a piece in HP set. Both had their uses.

    Now I don't have any level 50s yet and I don't really know about stuff, but if there's only one viable build for each class/job, I'd say that's a case of boring design. The question that should HNMs drop better gear than instances is just, in my opinion, based on a very narrow perspective of what the battle system could, or should, offer.

    So basically what I'm trying to ramble about is more diversity, both in enemies and gear and I really really don't see how adding HNMs could in any way be categorically a bad thing.
    (3)

  3. #503
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Character
    Alhanelem Amidatelion
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 90
    So you would like to tell everyone that HNM's had absolutely zero effect on the popularity of the game at that point in time?
    Yes. Absolutely zero. Nobody bought the game because there were HNMs in it. In fact, nobody who bought the game likely knew what HNMs were. When zilart was out, the game was brand new in north america. It's purely because it was a young game, it was Final Fantasy, and it was an MMO with a real storyline.

    HNMs were a part of the game, and they were something that some of the most advanced players in the game enjoyed, but they were not a selling point of the game or a reason why anyone picked the game up and started playing it.

    Forced pop Notorious Monsters.
    Yes. FORCED POP NMs. Not world spawns. Even then, we didn't look at the box of FFXI and say, "Ohh, there's this place called sky with big scary monsters in it! I'm buying this!"

    FFXIV without HNMs is like christmas without cookies:
    If you were one of the elite, high end players that played this content, yes. Otherwise, no.

    Although the actual fights themselves were fun, what you had to go through to be able to experience them was like cookies with diarrhea poured all over them.

    There's a reason why most major bosses in FFXI aren't world spawns anymore.
    (1)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 04-02-2012 at 05:00 AM.

  4. #504
    Player
    ThePatriarch's Avatar
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    Character
    The Patriarch
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    Yes. Absolutely zero.
    This is you saying that HNM's had no popularity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    HNMs were a part of the game, and they were something that some of the most advanced players in the game enjoyed
    This is you nullifying your prior statement. Whether or not you want to admit/believe it, HNM's were very popular. In some cases on the more crowded servers there would be in upwards of 100 at each camp. And you say advanced players... What do you think people aspire to be in MMO's? The greater majority of people who play MMO's would eventually like to get to the "Upper Tier", and slay those massive monsters with friends, or work on finally clearing that instanced dungeon.

    Even more, Notorious Monsters are easily one of the biggest parts of FFXI (arguably the biggest). There are so many forms of NM/HNM's, and each and every one of them are liked by a certain crowd.

    You had your ground HNM (Ground Kings/21-24hour spawn)

    Small time World NM's (leaping lizzy, Valkurm Em, etc)

    Forced pop HNM's (sky, sea, etc)

    ZNM (Zeni Notorious Monsters)

    Instanced HNM's (Nyzul, Assault, Salvage, Dynamis etc)

    The fact that you would say that no one had any interest in HNM/NM's, is simply ignorant.
    (2)
    Last edited by ThePatriarch; 04-02-2012 at 05:03 AM.
    Bring Quality Notorious Monsters to FFXIV!

    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/40738-Highly-Notorious-Monstersz


  5. #505
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Character
    Alhanelem Amidatelion
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 90
    This is you saying that HNM's had no popularity.
    No, this is me saying that they were not a reason for purchase, a selling point of the game. But yes, for all intents and purposes, their popularity is and was limited. Not everybody got to do this. Hell, the majority of players in any MMO don't even reach the maximum level, much less get to do endgame content. You don't seem to understand this fact. For World of Warcraft, for instance, something like 75% of characters don't even reach level 10. HNMs weren't even popular among all high level players, many preferring to do quests, dynamis, assaults, etc or regular NMs. VERY FEW people actually got to do participate in HNMs on a regular basis.

    This is you nullifying your prior statement.
    No, that doesn't nullify my statement. "Advanced players" is not everyone or a majority of people. It's a small number of people- like the top 1-5% of players.

    The fact that you would say that no one had any interest in HNM/NM's, is simply ignorant.
    There is a MASSIVE difference between "no one" and a small number of people. You are the ignorant one, as you can't even read my post correctly.

    What people are asking for in this thread is WORLD SPAWN HNMs. I'm tottally cool and fine with instanced fights and force pops. I'm NOT fine with multi-day repops, spawn windows, or any kind of HNM where different linkshells/guilds/groups of people must compete for claim.

    In FFXI, "HNM" usually refers to monsters like the following: Fafnir/Nidhogg, Adamantoise/Aspidochelone, Behemoth/King Behemoth, Vrtra/Jormungand/Tiamat, Hydra/Khimaria/Cerberus, etc. All of these monsters are 24hr or longer spawns, with lengthy spawn windows forcing people to camp for hours. All of these monsters generally had multiple linkshells all accuisng eahcother of botting and cheating to get the pull. This aspect of HNM certainly wasn't popular with anyone who didn't have a bot.
    (1)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 04-02-2012 at 05:11 AM.

  6. #506
    Player
    Jinko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    5,656
    Character
    Jinko Jinko
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Yves View Post
    By that logic we should remove all references to FFXI. All the jobs should be cast aside and we should have unique classes like Conjurer and Thaumaturge. Oh wait - they did that and people had a conniption fit. Maybe you should rephrase what you mean more clearly and say "I did not like this aspect and disagree it should be implemented in the game for xyz."

    Also, by your initial statement, it appears you would be fine if the items were non-essential, is that correct?
    Again stop pretending that this game failed because it tried to be different it failed because it was rushed to launch, the servers were/are crap, the UI was/is unresponsive.

    It certainly isn't because of the names of classes. LOL's

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePatriarch View Post
    I guess I need to explain in more detail. Lets say of the aforementioned items, there is a 5% drop rate, and 1% drop rate on Defending ring. You can kill for weeks and weeks, and months and maybe only see a couple of each.

    If the NM's dropped an equal amount of tokens every kill, you would be able to work at getting the items you are interested in without dealing with horrid drop rates. You would also not feel that pang of despair every time you killed the NM without drops, because with tokens there would be a set amount that would drop every kill. It would be up to your LS to split tokens equally each kill, or they could just go to a designated person, etc.
    This is somewhat what we have been asking for from Primal battles and it has been met with a 50/50 split, I wouldn't expect to see a token system for open world NM's if we can't get it for instanced ones.
    (1)
    Last edited by Jinko; 04-02-2012 at 05:13 AM.

  7. #507
    Player
    Cyonos's Avatar
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    Jan 2012
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    31
    Character
    Cyonos Teventir
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 50
    I,m 100% behind the idea of HNM in xiv, let the ppl that want no part of HNM stick to their instanced dungeons that they cling to so adamantly. I liked how bcnm, ksnm, znm, were implemented in xi, I dont how ever like the idea of tokens for drops from a HNM to buy a piece of gear. What i cant even understand is why no one like the idea of competition on HNM or anything for that matter.

    Its just my opinion but bring back HNM Xi style and let anyone who wants to participate have at it and those that dont can do w/e it is they want instanced dungeons, primals w/e they fell like doing. Hell bring back bcnm ksnm znm while we are at it. Just cause its HNM doesnt mean that they will be forced to participate in it.
    (2)

  8. #508
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    4,948
    Character
    Alhanelem Amidatelion
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 90
    I liked how bcnm, ksnm, znm, were implemented in xi
    funny how you complain about instanced content when 2 of these 3 are instanced content and you say you liked them...

    ZNM are not HNM (well, until the final tier...), nor are BCNM or KSNMs...

    What i cant even understand is why no one like the idea of competition on HNM or anything for that matter.
    Because it's NOT FUN. In no small part because it usually leads to some kind of cheating. I do NOT like the idea of going out to kill some HNM, sitting there waiting for 3 hours for it to pop, only to have some linkshell with a bot claim the monster before it even appears on anyone else's screen. How could you find that to be fun unless you were the one doing the botting? Then there was the constant interruptions to other activities- I can't tell you how many times I had planned an activity with some LS members, like a week in advance, only to have it cancelled by the 7th day of fafnir or some other HNM that MIGHT pop "HQ."

    If you can't understand why it's not fun, then you were more than likely part of a linkshell that botted or cheated.

    Its just my opinion but bring back HNM Xi style
    It's not worth their time to develop content that only 100 out of 10-20,000 people will want to play.

    Big scary need your wits and a good size group of people to beat bosses are fine. I want more of those. I do NOT want them open world. Force pop or instanced only, unless repop times are low.
    (1)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 04-02-2012 at 05:18 AM.

  9. #509
    Player
    ThePatriarch's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    537
    Character
    The Patriarch
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    No, this is me saying that they were not a reason for purchase, a selling point of the game. But yes, for all intents and purposes, their popularity is and was limited. Not everybody got to do this. Hell, the majority of players in any MMO don't even reach the maximum level, much less get to do endgame content. You don't seem to understand this fact. For World of Warcraft, for instance, something like 75% of characters don't even reach level 10. HNMs weren't even popular among all high level players, many preferring to do quests, dynamis, assaults, etc or regular NMs. VERY FEW people actually got to do participate in HNMs on a regular basis.

    No, that doesn't nullify my statement. "Advanced players" is not everyone or a majority of people. It's a small number of people- like the top 1-5% of players.

    There is a MASSIVE difference between "no one" and a small number of people. You are the ignorant one, as you can't even read my post correctly.
    I don't think you actually played FFXI, or WoW. I however, played both.

    75% of people didn't get past level 10? Tell me Lodestone Official Forums, how long does it take for one to get to level 10 in WoW (less than a couple of hours).

    I want you to log into FFXI (if you have it), and do a "/sea all" command, tell me what you see in terms of level's. Please respond with how many people you see at max level. Furthermore I would ask you to do a percentage of people below 99, and people at 99, this way we can get a good feel at the comparison between people at max level, and people who aren't. (we wont even consider the fact that most of them have multiple 99's. (I am going to make an assumption and say that 75%+ are at maximum level).

    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    No, that doesn't nullify my statement. "Advanced players" is not everyone or a majority of people. It's a small number of people- like the top 1-5% of players.
    I'm not sure if you are being serious here. If you think that in FFXI, only 1-5% of the community participated in endgame content..

    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    There is a MASSIVE difference between "no one" and a small number of people. You are the ignorant one, as you can't even read my post correctly.
    Define a small amount of people sir. Because I think alot more than a "small" amount of people are interested in HNM's.

    When it comes to ignorant, I guess making a collaborative thread with ideas about the hopeful implementation of a beloved aspect of prior SE MMO's; Which contains over 500 replies, 12000+ views, and 129 personal likes, is ignorant?

    Rather, I think coming into that thread, and trying to argue the point that no one is interested in said content.. that sir, is ignorant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    ZNM are not HNM, nor are BCNM or KSNMs...
    They are all Notorious Monsters.....

    Zeni Notorious Monster
    Burning Circle Notorious Monster
    Kindred Seal Notorious Monster...

    We want all of these, not just the open-world aspect. Please read before posting.
    (3)
    Last edited by ThePatriarch; 04-02-2012 at 05:19 AM.
    Bring Quality Notorious Monsters to FFXIV!

    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/40738-Highly-Notorious-Monstersz


  10. #510
    Player
    Laraul's Avatar
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    Nov 2011
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    902
    Character
    Laraul Lunacy
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 70
    FFXI's long re-spawn timers lead to a problem of people negating their real world responsibilities in order to camp a long spawn NM. Hence the desire to claim an NM's would often lead to people not attending work, school, or social activities. This must be avoided with XIV.
    (2)

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