Highly Notorious Monsters

[Jeronlmo]

And this is your problem. It is a video game. Meant to be fun and entertaining, and not to replace real life (merely provide a temporary escape). In FFXI, SE was a hypocrite...making you say yes to not forgetting family, friends, job, etc and then adding content to the contrary (and guess what? people like you dumped their life to get the content...yes, I know they didn't make you do it, BUT they provided the means for you to do it.) I have faith that Yoshi-P realizes this and doesn't create another contrary system like Old-XI style HNMs, because family, friends, job, and school will ALWAYS come first to me.

This is 100% your take on gaming, the casual take on it, which is fine, but accept what you are and be happy with it. For me and many others, gaming is about a challenge, and I have fun by being challenged. The only people that gaming "replaces" real life for are RPers and anyone at all who has ever claimed "immersion matters". The fact that you need to and in fact can "escape from reality" means your somewhat a RPer even if you do not RP with people... it goes into some kind of insanity I cannot imagine to suddenly believe the game is real.

Every other mmo out there (wow, rift, aion, gw... ect) has the "not forgetting family, friends, job, etc" BS because its mandated by law that they do so or they would be liable for crazy people who die at their computers. Now lets take wow... casual homeland, people still play alot, even though the raids in wow have week long lockouts, and theres virtually nothing worth doing... ever. Fact is, theres crazy people in the world and in every MMO, the fact that a few may have existed in FF11 means nothing except that youve been grasping at straws.

[Andrien]

1) Make up your mind on what the argument is. Reguardless of windows, it will still only reward those who claim fast enough.

It was in response to those that considers hardcore to be based on waiting hours upon hours for a single monster to pop.

2) A well thought out post from you would be nice but lets get past this. I tried to respond to the rest of this, but considering you apparently do not know what your talking about I could not even imagine what your version of "well thought out content" would be.

You can't be serious.. Apparently you have trouble comprehending what my statement means. I'll try to make it more simpler for you to understand. Now read closely.

**Well thought out content. What is content? Ex: Sky/Sea/Einherjar/Dungeons. They're all teaming with high level NMs, and at the end there is the true NM boss. The cream of the crop, the boss that drops that elite stuff.

You know these content requires coordination with other teammates, solving puzzles in dungeons, and some brain power.

The fact that you didn't get all that before worries me a little.

[Jeronlmo]

It was in response to those that considers hardcore to be based on waiting hours upon hours for a single monster to pop.



You can't be serious.. Apparently you have trouble comprehending what my statement means. I'll try to make it more simpler for you to understand. Now read closely.

**Well thought out content. What is content? Ex: Sky/Sea/Einherjar/Dungeons. They're all teaming with high level NMs, and at the end there is the true NM boss. The cream of the crop, the boss that drops that elite stuff.

You know these content requires coordination with other teammates, solving puzzles in dungeons, and some brain power.

The fact that you didn't get all that before worries me a little.

I think your stalking me, I edited all that out like 14min's before you posted, your post contained such little information the entire thing is out of place.

But now this post is easier to respond to atleast, you are against open world content altogether. If that last post simply said "No to HNM's because I personally hate open world content in any form." I would not have even responded to you.

If you would, read through all 113 pages of this thread, I have, not a single person is anti-instance, you will get what you want, FF with finally after all the hard work and begging have instances. There is nothing wrong with more than a single type of content, the more types means the more types of people you will get and obv more people in general.

[Andrien]

I think your stalking me, I edited all that out like 14min's before you posted, your post contained such little information the entire thing is out of place.

But now this post is easier to respond to atleast, you are against open world content altogether. If that last post simply said "No to HNM's because I personally hate open world content in any form." I would not have even responded to you.

I was watching survivorman on netflix. Probably the reason why of the late reply. I have no attention of sounding mean or anything. Perhaps I should have word my thoughts better before.

I have nothing against open world content. I just think waiting for the pop window mechanic should change into actually luring the monster out with hard work and effort. Doing so should not be an easy task of course.

[Takeshi_Eiketsu]

This is 100% your take on gaming, the casual take on it, which is fine, but accept what you are and be happy with it. For me and many others, gaming is about a challenge, and I have fun by being challenged. The only people that gaming "replaces" real life for are RPers and anyone at all who has ever claimed "immersion matters". The fact that you need to and in fact can "escape from reality" means your somewhat a RPer even if you do not RP with people... it goes into some kind of insanity I cannot imagine to suddenly believe the game is real.

Every other mmo out there (wow, rift, aion, gw... ect) has the "not forgetting family, friends, job, etc" BS because its mandated by law that they do so or they would be liable for crazy people who die at their computers. Now lets take wow... casual homeland, people still play alot, even though the raids in wow have week long lockouts, and theres virtually nothing worth doing... ever. Fact is, theres crazy people in the world and in every MMO, the fact that a few may have existed in FF11 means nothing except that youve been grasping at straws.

I have played a LOT of MMOs, (WOW, rift, GW, GW2, FFXI, FFXIV, DUCO, Planetside 1 and 2, STO, SWTOR, Earth and Beyond, Age of Conan, Anarchy Online, Champions Online, COH/V, etc etc etc) and Square is the only one I have seen to prominently place that statement, about life and family, in their game. Rest were hidden within the manual or in an agreement that people speedily hit 'agree' to (If it is as you say, I would like a screen source). So, that being said, you didn't understand the post you quoted at all and I am not going to bother repeating it, because it is in layman's terms.

The great thing about your posted responses to me is that others I have been talking with, that agree with what you want, understand my side, and we have at least come to some sort of understanding and agreement about the things you are quoting.

I am sorry if you are so conceited that you can't see what I am talking about. So I am going to try and explain this one more time, if you don't get it, then I am not going to bother with you anymore.

1. When I said those that work more hours than those that don't deserve the same chance, I meant it. YES, I agree that more time in game equates to more chances, but that only holds true if the opportunities are there. (Which I am advocating more opportunities.)

2. You really didn't understand my analogy at all...so lets translate his analogy into game terms: "That's like if we worked the same job but I worked 8 hours a day and you only had to work 2 hours a day but we get the same pay. "

Reworked: "That's like if we played the same game but I played 8 hours a day and you only played 2 hours a day, but we get the same gear."

So, I can do in 2 hours what you can do in 8? Wouldn't you have more gear in 8 hours because you can move on to other things faster than I can?! /gasp

The analogy doesn't work.

3. "The chances are always there for you if you log on more, you just refuse to." The chances are not ALWAYS there...when they have long spawns with crazy windows, and yes I refuse to login when it involves family, friends, work, and school outside of a game...that being said, I love the game and try to play as OFTEN as a can, but I do not need to justify that things outside of a game, like family and work, should come first.

4. I was implying that his elitism is clouding his judgement, sorry for the poor statement.

[Soonkyu]

Let's get a few things straight.

Scenario A:

If I log in at 1 PM and log out 10 PM, I have played the game for 9 hours. Let's say that of those 9 hours, 6 were spent crafting or leveling a class (something tangible and produces immediate reward for time given). Let's say for the other 3 hours, I decided to stand (idle) in a zone, waiting for a monster to appear, on the chance that I'm going to get claim to that monster. Let's go with a negative outcome this time. The monster did not appear. I log out for the night, with my effective time coming in at 6 hours of play (since 3 were wasted). That doesn't matter, though, because I'm hardcore and I decide that the amount of work I put in was 9 hours worth. (It's not, I just want to pretend it is because I don't want to think I've wasted my time. Which I did.) I do this for a week straight and for that week, I either do not see the mob spawn or do not get claim of the mob. I played 9 hours a day, coming out with a cumulative of 63 hours of play. However, 3 hours of each day were spent standing around waiting for a chance at something. So, out of 63 hours of play, 21 of those hours were wasted (time spent with no reward = a negative) because I received nothing from it. Whatever, I played 63 hours, I'm hardcore. (Only 42 hours of my time were actually effective, though.)

Scenario B:

If I log in at 1 PM and log out at 7 PM, I have played the game for 6 hours. Let's say that of those 6 hours, all were spent farming items and completing challenges for a tiered system involving Notorious Monsters. These Notorious Monster fights require coordination, the right combination of jobs, and a know-how to complete the fights within a certain amount of time. It is not content that the average player walks into and completes with their eyes closed. It takes me a week to make it to the last stage of the tiered system, where my Linkshell and I get to fight the HNM. There's no guessing about it. We passed all the stages and made it to the monster. The monster requires very specific tactics and we execute them like a well oiled machine. Although we've managed to kill the HNM, he doesn't drop anything but gil. At the end of the week, I've spent a cumulative 42 hours of time playing the game. Of those 42 hours, all of them are considered effective, because I received a reward (even though it was just gil) at the very end of it.

More TIME does not equal more EFFORT. More TIME does not mean being more HARDCORE. Scenario B is actually MORE hardcore than Scenario A, because Scenario A did not commit as many hours to END GAME content (and that's what we all assume when someone mentions hardcore). One person put in more work (the word "work" does not automatically mean effective work) than the other, but because the OTHER person worked SMARTER and not HARDER, they accomplished more within their limited time.

Fact: Time is money.

Fact: Windowed HNMs are like gambling. Gambling is specifically designed around something called negative expectancy. Negative expectancy roughly means that out of all the money I put into something, I can expect a ROUGHLY 90% return. No matter how I cut it, I lose. I did not get out of it what I put into it.

Fact: I'd rather spend my time being effective than wasting it. And I have a hell of a lot of time to spend as a disabled vet with nothing to do but play video games.

[Exn]

stuff

Fact: Most horrible examples (scenarios) given to try to prove a point ever.

How do you take the worst possible outcome in Scenario A, and compare it to the best possible outcome in Scenario B.. How do you know you didn't get item on first day in Sc. A, or how do you know you know that it takes everyone the same time to move through your Sc. B... Maybe not everyone can group day after day, multiple times in a row to complete tieried content like u described within a week.. Your scenarios don't show anything except your strong bias in this arguement.

Fact: All endgame content is a gamble.

Fact: Just because you wasted your time in a windowed system, doesn't mean everyone else did.

[valetarkus]

I want to fight some real nasties in 2.0!!!

[Soonkyu]

Stuff about random stuff that had nothing to do with previous arguments about stuff.

I fixed it for you.

My point.





Your head.

[Takeshi_Eiketsu]

Fact: Time is money.

Fact: Windowed HNMs are like gambling. Gambling is specifically designed around something called negative expectancy. Negative expectancy roughly means that out of all the money I put into something, I can expect a ROUGHLY 90% return. No matter how I cut it, I lose. I did not get out of it what I put into it.

Fact: I'd rather spend my time being effective than wasting it. And I have a hell of a lot of time to spend as a disabled vet with nothing to do but play video games.

I agree, my whole argument is that time should equal progression in a game. (not sitting around waiting, and twiddling thumbs.)