Extreme Market Board Undercutting is a Problem. Who ultimately benefits from this?

[Raven2014]

Just because you don't want to spend over 200k on glamour doesn't mean there aren't people out there who would in equal quantity.

I guess you don't do math.

- When did I say just because I don't there is no other?
- You seem to miss the part when I said "those who willing to buy" is just a sub-set of the "those who want"? That, or you don't understand the context of subset.

I've sold high-priced crafted glamour for every single expansion for millions of gil per craft, multiple times per day. It has to be a very, very low demand item if someone is not willing to pay extra to get it.

That's simply a concept of supply and demand. I'll let you in another secret of mine: I sale even the thing I want if I can fetch a good price for it, and wait to buy it back later for cheap. It's what I usually do with new EX primal drop. Even if I want the items for myself I still sell them for millions when supply is scared, and happily buy them back later for peanuts once everyone and their brothers have some to sale.

In which case, the price wouldn't be high in the first place. People aren't posting crafted glamour for ~5 mil without anyone buying it, you can check the sale history even.

See above, you missed the concept of "subset".

And for the record, 200k is an extremely low price for those kinds of things, no one would ever sell them that low when they're current because people buy them frequently enough at 10-20x that. Even a single material for the current map glamour costs more than that.

And for the record, I had bought almost every single glamour I wanted in the game, and had never paid more than 200k for them.

It's the same for something like a luxury car or bespoke tailored suit in real life. Those things cost exorbitant amounts of money but some of the most profitable companies in the world sell them. If the issue was ever really the price, then the seller goes out of business.

And how much a market share is those luxury? Do you think BMW sustain itself by making RollRoyce that is only made to order? Sure, I bet they make a lot of money per Roll Royce sale, but is that the majority of their profit? Or is it from the main stream sedan/SUV that they sold by the hundred thousands?

You seem to have a very narrow understand despite using big jargons, so let me spell two very simple logic for you:

First - Pricing for the most part bases on supply and demand. If like you said, you can post an item for 5mil a days several times, and can move several of such item a day, then there is no reason for undercutting. Undercutting only happens when supply start exceeding demand. I'm an omni crafter who had "lazily" made ~60million in this expansion, and it's a simple pattern. New patch - first week - big money. Say I made an armor set to sale, posted it, and it sold even before I finished crafting a 2nd set ... you think I would undercut during those time? Hell no, I was selling faster than I can make! But, does that trend last forever? It nose dived very quickly as each week went by for reason I already stated:

+ Demand drops among the "willing to pay". That doesn't say no one want it after the first rush, but the people who wanted and haven't bought it are the people who don't want to pay the price.
+ Supply increase as more crafter joining the market (finishing leveling, supply chain catch up). And this is when the undercutting happens. If I post the same armor and now instead of being sold within the hour, it sits there for a day, of course I will drop the price, because I want to sell 'more'. The reason why your 'irl' example is a laugh because the main principle of free-flowing economy is sale by volume. If you can chat up the people who had "billion of gils" in this game, you can see they practice the exact opposite of what you're preaching.


Second - Now, of course there are times when the undercutting happens outside the supply-demand chain. And I can guarantee you usually when that happens, it's not because people are dumb, rather it's the people who think "they are dumb" are the one being played. I don't do it any more, but in other MMO (like GW2) I had been part of "consortium" that can play the market - going through length from extreme price cutting to controlling the supply chain. Taking short term loss for long term gain, and I know there exist some crafter alliance in this game that as well. This actually peak during 3.0 when SE make crafting a hardcore content, and I would guess ever since they have tried to make crafting more simple/accessible to reduce the power of these alliances.

The point I'm making is if you see some kind of anomaly and attribute them as "people are being dumbed", I would advise not to question your better. Chance is, you're dealing with people with far more power and resourceful then you are. See how often these kind of topic pop up? Notice how many of the post with peopling ranting "it's not worth it any more so I stop doing it" kind of response? Guess what, that's exactly the intended effect. :P

[Ultimatecalibur]

I get where you are coming from but to clarify I'm not referring to selling the finished product at a higher price.

For example if X is selling for 100k consistently,multiple times daily.

I bought the mats from other players for 50k and I sold my item at 100k as well, I'm making a 50k profit.

However, since I didn't spend that time farming/gathering items and instead did this for many items like X but with higher profit margins.

As opposed to someone, who spends hours farming/gathering themselves for a few items like X.

The person who farmed/gathered themselves has lost the time/opportunity to diversify into many/more lucrative markets.

Even though, my profit margins in terms of gil may be lower on individual items but collectively on multiple items, I'm fairly confident that I'd make more gil/hour.

Not everyone places the same value on their own time nor do they make judgements based on gil/hour rates. Some people enjoy the process of gathering all the materials needed for a craft or crafts, crafting those items and then putting them on the market.

Some people like playing the market while others like crafting and selling stuff. Both sets of producers sell stuff on the marketboard alongside players who just post the random stuff their retainers bring home.

[TwistedTea]

Not everyone places the same value on their own time nor do they make judgements based on gil/hour rates. Some people enjoy the process of gathering all the materials needed for a craft or crafts, crafting those items and then putting them on the market.

Some people like playing the market while others like crafting and selling stuff. Both sets of producers sell stuff on the marketboard alongside players who just post the random stuff their retainers bring home.

And that's fine. I stated in one of earlier posts that some people find farming/gathering themselves fun or don't value their time.

But my argument was in response to an earlier comment that farming/gathering is "technically pure profit."

Time/opportunity costs have a gil value. Even if people disagree on what that gil value is.

[SamSmoot]

Then I will continue to buy them all up and re-sell them at 300x the price. Also, I can understand with a popular item this happening. But what I've noticed is like 2-3 people will extremely undercut and then everyone just follows suit, which basically saps all value from the item.

I've always had a problem with people flipping market items. Sometimes, I'd like to post some low-level stuff at reasonable prices to help hew players out, but then some bot will just buy it and repost. All flipping does is enrich a few players at the expense of everyone else.

This was a big problem in WoW with bots. You'd sell something at a low price, and it would be purchased instantly by some "player" who has been sitting in a corner of the auction house for 24 hours a day.

It would be nice if anything purchased off the MB would become market prohibited, until it was turned into something else via crafting, desynth, or conversion. Unfortunately, this would be extremely difficult, because the number of marketable items would be doubled by creating prohibited versions of each one.

[ForteNightshade]

It would be nice if anything purchased off the MB would become market prohibited, until it was turned into something else via crafting, desynth, or conversion. Unfortunately, this would be extremely difficult, because the number of marketable items would be doubled by creating prohibited versions of each one.

The reason this doesn't happen is because it's far too easy to exploit. Someone with a vendetta can destroy markets with it having no way to recover unless someone threw away millions buying everything up only to toss it since the items are now worthwhile. At least now, you can make a profit off said vendetta which alone discourages most people from purposely trying to tank markets.

[DynnDiablos]

300x the price. nice lie dude who has never sold a materia in his life, go waste more time leveling crafters ill stay here undercutting everyone till the day I die because thats the only way to sell anything.

Is there a reason you feel the need to be so hostile? I've sold materia. I've sold stuff I gathered. I've sold stuff my retainers bring back. Leveling crafters is not a waste of time, and if the only way you can sell items is by undercutting that doesn't make you a MB mastermind.

Why don't you calm down, and just take a breather? None of my posts or follow-up posts have been rude or attacking. This is all a discussion, so why not participate in a friendly way?

[LineageRazor]

"Ultimately"

L O L

Like some sinister cabal is rigging the entire marketplace to their whims, ensuring the rich and powerful stay wealthy while the slum dwellers remain poor, silencing any unfortunate soul that happen to have an inkling of their nefarious plans. I can just hear the cackling of the mastermind who is "ultimately" benefiting from the financial chaos as he/she pets their fat cat.

TREMBLE in the face of...

THE INVISIBLE HAND!

OoooOOOOooooo.....