New SCH, have a few questions

[Billythepancake]

Ah yes the Meta, how dare I go against it.

You do you, but to say recitation adlo is better than excog makes no sense, even in non meta. Instead of using an aetherflow on excog and forcing a critlo, you could recitation excog and get a lustrate. I don't really care how you play the game, nor do I demand meta, but forcing a critlo does not have more advantages over forcing a crit excog in most circumstances, especially when you can stack crit and get critlos on your own fairly easily.

[SaberMaxwell]

Ah yes the Meta, how dare I go against it.

It's a second opinion, doctor.

The more viewpoints op gets, the better a player they have the potential to be. Now they know how two different people look at the ability Recitation and why they look at it like that.

[Semirhage]

Ah yes the Meta, how dare I go against it.

Ah. Suggestions for performance improvement. How this game's population loves to sneer at it.

[Eloah]

You do you, but to say recitation adlo is better than excog makes no sense, even in non meta. Instead of using an aetherflow on excog and forcing a critlo, you could recitation excog and get a lustrate. I don't really care how you play the game, nor do I demand meta, but forcing a critlo does not have more advantages over forcing a crit excog in most circumstances, especially when you can stack crit and get critlos on your own fairly easily.

It's a second opinion, doctor.

The more viewpoints op gets, the better a player they have the potential to be. Now they know how two different people look at the ability Recitation and why they look at it like that.

Ah. Suggestions for performance improvement. How this game's population loves to sneer at it.

Well it's good to see that sarcasm is dead, good show everyone. Okay allow me to explain my response, killing the non-joke.

Most people are aware of this, but the whole thing about Meta is about optimization, mostly boiling down to the highest potency in the least amount of time possible. Usually, that's in regards to DPS. Well as most of us know, when Shadowbringers launched, healers were screwed over by the Meta, because it's a DPS loss to use a GCD heal; because a healers job isn't to heal off. (The Meta was the main reason for the healer changes)

However, if the Meta is about optimizing potencies, why wouldn't that apply to heals as well? Now unlike attacks healing needs to be precise, since it is very bad to overheat. But since Adlo is a shield, overheating isn't really an issue, so all of the potencies can stack without any waste.

Now, the main reason I responded to Billy's post as I did, was mainly because they specifically said, using Excog frees up a GCD to use on an attack, which is the current Meta. They said use it for an Energy Drain, but I'm not sure if that's exactly what they meant since Excog uses Aetherfow too, so it's like swapping one for the other, but I digress. The main reason I made my sarcastic comment was because they referenced the Meta; using an oGCD heal to free us a GCD for an attack, no more no less.

Additionally, I never claimed using Recitation on Adlo was better. I just said it gets more mileage. I didn't add in the crit modifier in my initial post but even adding it in, Adlo(450+562.5+562.5=1575) comes out ahead of Excog(1200) by almost 400 potency.

I am not saying anything anyone else does is wrong, it is merely personal preference and playstyle. My comment was just a jab at the Meta, because it was referenced.

[Leidiriv]

Excog is a passive heal. Passive skills, whether damage or heals dont display the same as active skills. Basically, DoTs and HoTs don't show crits with the giant number and !, they just have a bigger number.

Also, I personally wouldn't recommend using Recitation on Excog, you get more mileage out of using it on Adloquium instead. The 3 effects of Adlo wind up being 1050 potency combined, whereas Excog is only 800.

If you want to compare them fully, let's compare the crit multipliers and all the gains of the skills in question. Given current normal crit values, SCH can expect an approximate crit multiplier of 1.5x.

So if we've got a prepull Adlo + in-fight Reci Excog + the tick of Fey Union you get, plus let's say another Aetherflow heal is needed and you happen to have a charge left thanks to Reci Excog and you use Sacred Soil, you've got the shield's potency of 375 (chance to crit and approximately triple the shield), plus the ~1200 potency of the guaranteed Excog crit, plus the 560 potency of Fey Union (400 base potency per tick, pet abilities scale at 70% of player abilities), plus the 5 ticks of Soil over its duration (if the tank plays nice you get the guaranteed instant tick when you set the ability down) for 500/600 potency, for a minimum total potency of 2355/2455. Not counting the 10% mitigation of Soil ofc.

So let's compare that to the Reci Adlo + in-fight Excog, + the tick of Fey Union, assuming a similar prepull shield. At that point you've got the 1125 potency shield, 800 potency from Excog, and 280 potency from Fey Union, for a minimum total potency of 2205.

In conclusion, Recitation has far more value than just "guarantees a Critlo".

[Eloah]

If you want to compare them fully, let's compare the crit multipliers and all the gains of the skills in question. Given current normal crit values, SCH can expect an approximate crit multiplier of 1.5x.

So if we've got a prepull Adlo + in-fight Reci Excog + the tick of Fey Union you get, plus let's say another Aetherflow heal is needed and you happen to have a charge left thanks to Reci Excog and you use Sacred Soil, you've got the shield's potency of 375 (chance to crit and approximately triple the shield), plus the ~1200 potency of the guaranteed Excog crit, plus the 560 potency of Fey Union (400 base potency per tick, pet abilities scale at 70% of player abilities), plus the 5 ticks of Soil over its duration (if the tank plays nice you get the guaranteed instant tick when you set the ability down) for 500/600 potency, for a minimum total potency of 2355/2455. Not counting the 10% mitigation of Soil ofc.

So let's compare that to the Reci Adlo + in-fight Excog, + the tick of Fey Union, assuming a similar prepull shield. At that point you've got the 1125 potency shield, 800 potency from Excog, and 280 potency from Fey Union, for a minimum total potency of 2205.

In conclusion, Recitation has far more value than just "guarantees a Critlo".

These threads just make my heads hurt after a while.

Also, I don't want this thread to get anymore off track, but why do your calculations include Sacred Soil in one but not the other, and why does one appear to have a 560/400 Fey Union and the other only a 280. The only variances that should exist in your examples should be the guaranteed crit from Recitation. Now I am not saying that the combined potencies for a crit Excog can't be greater than a crit Adlo if you combine it with other things, but the two examples you gave seem a bit skewed.

[Leidiriv]

These threads just make my heads hurt after a while.

Also, I don't want this thread to get anymore off track, but why do your calculations include Sacred Soil in one but not the other, and why does one appear to have a 560/400 Fey Union and the other only a 280. The only variances that should exist in your examples should be the guaranteed crit from Recitation. Now I am not saying that the combined potencies for a crit Excog can't be greater than a crit Adlo if you combine it with other things, but the two examples you gave seem a bit skewed.

Because Recitation makes the Excog free. It gives 10 extra Faerie Gauge for no cost and gives you effectively an extra Soil/Lustrate/ED.

[Eloah]

Because Recitation makes the Excog free. It gives 10 extra Faerie Gauge for no cost and gives you effectively an extra Soil/Lustrate/ED.

You are not incorrect, though that still doesnt explain the odd potency discrepancy between the two Fey Unions. I wont deny that in the long run Excog might be the better option, when adding in what you explained. But, the same could be said for things evening out in the long run. Think of it this way, Adlo is for burst damage and Excog for sustained. Both have merit, but it's up to the player to decide when they'd rather use one or the other. I just prefer to use Adlo.

Now I'm going to stop this topic because honestly, I don't care, use the skills how you want. I was just more mad that no one understood the sarcasm in that one reply. Your replay wasn't like that, just your example confused me a bit, because the examples didn't line up completely, as I think you intended.

[Leidiriv]

You are not incorrect, though that still doesnt explain the odd potency discrepancy between the two Fey Unions. I wont deny that in the long run Excog might be the better option, when adding in what you explained. But, the same could be said for things evening out in the long run. Think of it this way, Adlo is for burst damage and Excog for sustained. Both have merit, but it's up to the player to decide when they'd rather use one or the other. I just prefer to use Adlo.

Now I'm going to stop this topic because honestly, I don't care, use the skills how you want. I was just more mad that no one understood the sarcasm in that one reply. Your replay wasn't like that, just your example confused me a bit, because the examples didn't line up completely, as I think you intended.

The potency difference is because of the free tick of Fey Union generated by Reci Excog. Assuming an approximate potency of 280 per tick, that is.

[Eloah]

The potency difference is because of the free tick of Fey Union generated by Reci Excog. Assuming an approximate potency of 280 per tick, that is.

I see, you added the two 280 potencies together. That isnt immediately obvious, but I see it now.