If you thought the healer DPS debate would change with the change...

[ForteNightshade]

Idk did you played tanks in stormblood for long, but anyone who did will tell you, they were a lot tankier in tank stance back then than they are now.

Raw intuition is trash now because it shares CD with Nascent flash, it wont be used in dungeons pulls maybe on bosses on tank buster mechanics, nothing more.

Warrior with 20% heal and HP bonus was able to hold wall-to-wall pull on his own without healer with IR damage windows, it was super strong, with convalescence ON he would heal himself to full with one steel cyclone on IR.

As i told you before protect bonus was entirely dependent on the amount of defensive stat you had, it was super small for dps and healers, but a significant buff for tanks
For tanks protect buff translated into 8-10% mitigation bonus for free and up all the time.

It takes today more healing than it was before.
I dont blame healers for not dpsing, because balance in dungeons changed by a ton towards healers.

Yes, actually. I tanked Savage and UcoB, albeit on a different account. How about you?

Curious you insist this given almost every tank main I know drooled at how strong Raw Intuition became. Did you even bother to read what I said? Nascent Flash isn't intended to be used when you're MTing. And saying it will only be used on tank busters. So? In what world is that a bad things? Warrior has options whereas before it straight up ignored Inner Beast because you barely even stayed in Defiance. Speaking of, I reiterate, yet again, Defiance did not provide you with any defense. Therefore, Warrior received a straight 20% buff. You keep ignoring this vital detail.

And that is HP sustainability not defensive mitigation. Regardless, each tank was compensated for that in some manner or another. All that changed is tanks can't solo dungeons anymore. At least not while mass pulling everything in sight. This doesn't make them squishier.

Which was, again, compensated by tanks having significantly higher HP and boosted defense. In Stormblood, the shortest CD outside TBN was Rampart—which had a 90s duration. Now each tank has one on demand every 25%. Considering it's more than double the strength of Protect, we're more than fine.

I can only speak anecdotally but I've found wall to wall pulls in Qitana Ravel, Malikah's Well and Mt. Gulg all easier than their Stormblood equivalent.

[EpicOverlord85]

Wow we are still at the point: stop doing nothing? Really? That was not the question - never was. Healer DP's dont matter at all so a healer can prioritize heals and buff over damage. You dislike that? You say healers dont change ? Thats untrue at all and you know that. Only whm have the neede buff received. Astro and Scholar need some adjustments. Even Whm need some adjustments because that damage potential and mitigation potential is too high (stun) also the mere numbers of instant heals is a little bit off the chart. So the only healer that has a donwtime after heals are Whm. Also successful clear of a Dungeon/Raid is always a group effort. I dont demand anything besides the assigned job of the respective class - tanking, healing, damaging - thats it. If things like this keep up Se will take harder measures to counteract this.

What else do call idling around waiting for something to happen other than doing nothing? There’s also a major difference between prioritizing healing over DPS due to incoming damage (pulling wall to wall for instance) and prioritizing healing over DPS because “I’m a healer, I only heal.” One is proactive and understandable, the other is lazy.

[Misutoraru]

Just turn the content heal intense and give us defensive buff skill (which AST could be walking this route, instead they dump us down to dps buff slave) problem solved.
Those can’t handle the huge intense healing phase will either learn or change role

[AmeliaVerves]

Just turn the content heal intense and give us defensive buff skill (which AST could be walking this route, instead they dump us down to dps buff slave) problem solved.
Those can’t handle the huge intense healing phase will either learn or change role

I don't think this will ever happen for a very simple reason: people won't be able to clear content anymore.

If you tune the healing so hard that good raiders have to shift their playstyle to, lets say 80% healing uptime, content will become mostly un-healable for the majority of players. It's not a secret that >70% of the players in this game are super casual and that is perfectly fine, but it also means they probably have no clue how to use their healing tools properly.
Small example: While the top raiders spent not a single GCD healing o9s, I've seen PF groups dying (even tho playing mechanics correctly), bc the healers couldn't keep them alive while not dpsing at all and only healing.
The skill gap in this game is basically too big to make it highly healing intense, because in the end the very good players will always find ways to DPS and other players will try to get there too/expect others to get there, which will lead to rude players demanding healers to dps.
In the end nothing will change, imho.

[Daethir]

And yet, she's right. IF, and that a big if, we know it won't happen, but if it did, we'd see probably an increase of healers in DF because we wouldn't have to put up with the toxic behavior of other players throwing their "ideal" on to a healer.
We get it already. Some healers love to dps (to the point they tunnel vision the tank health... wipe incoming!), some focus on healing before dps, while some don't do any dps at all.
And I'm not saying that I support those who do stand around doing nothing, but I don't support this utter bs of bulling in DF dungeons.

No less, people fail to realize that this is all new content, new job changes, etc. We're getting used to these changes. WHM to me felt about the same, but AST with a tank that don't know how to use their abilities right, yeah, no, I've been more focused on keeping the tank alive then being able to DPS. AST mana still blows. We don't have the utilizes like WHM does to keep our mana at a comfortable spot.

This kind of topic shouldn't even be raising up at this moment, but it seems it is because the OP being bully into doing DPS when she's doing her job and focusing on heals before DPS. This is how it should be, yet some people believe it to be the other way around.

And let be honest, it dungeons. If DPS themselves can't pull their weight in a dungeon and NEED the healer to dps, I hope they aren't going to be applying for a raid group anytime soon.

If they do something that stupid I'll never queu as a healer again. In leveling dungeon I'm DPSing literally 95% of the time, Eos and oGCD heal take care of most of the damage my group take. Plus I'm pretty sure most people don't have an ego so big they'll start boycotting dungeon the moment someone criticize their playstyle, the super special snowflake on the forum are the exception not the norm.

[Alphras]

There is also not a lot of "bullying" going on, let's be honest. There sure are some cases of abusive players in dungeons, but these are just the black sheep. The overwhelming majority of players that are dissatisfied with their healer in a dungeon run just mumble to them self or their friends on voice chat.

It is a different case for raid statics, but if the expectations of you and your group don't align you need a new group anyway.

[Awha]

Personally I think if the made the other healers dps rotations as fun and engaging as WHM more people would feel more inclined to use their dps skills. Granted I wish SE would go even further when it came to expanding the DPS rotations when it comes to healers, though WHM compared to the other healers their damage rotation is more fun. I get people say healers are not dps, but I highly doubt the incoming damage going forward will require heavy gcd healing so asking healers to dps especially SCH who can solo heal EX without using gcd heals yet their dps rotation boils down to two skills. I get it doing what amounts to doing a lowbie dungeon rotation at the higher levels. Sure savage "might" require more healing but given the EX fight standard I do not think it will be all my much harder in terms of healing requirements, and if they did want to make it so gcd heals were required they would really have to turn up the incoming damage but a significant amount, or reduce the survivability of healers to match with SE desire. I mean unless the standard for healers that SE wants is AST, if that is the case well GG because AST during large pulls feels like a chore and if that is the style of play SE wants then yeah I prob done with healers even on a causal level. I am far from a great healer so just my two cents.

[Yuyuka3]

As most don\\'t know, DPS is expensive mana wise now and rezzes are 25%u0025u0025 of your entire mana supply. There are times when all I can do is heal and then idle to recharge mana. I don\\'t mind tossing out a few DPS spells or a dot but with the current healer setup, its near impossible to ABC. Healers don\\'t have the bottomless well of mana they used to have.

As to the WHM DPS potency, yea they need a nerf, a big one too.

No they don't. Let them shine for once, we were shit for over two years now to the point of getting asked to switch to AST because cards more times than I can count. The only healer that needs a slight buff, maybe, is AST right now. SCH deals pretty good damage and buffs group DPS, they are pretty close to WHM all in all. Just AST is lagging behind a bit.

But, sure. Cry for nerfs on the one healer that got no buffs at all and was crap for over two years now instead of being glad that they are finally, for the first time in UEARS, are in a great spot. I call that hypocrisy since I\\'m pretty sure you never cried for AST/SCH nerfs while they were in literally every meta party, right.

[Windwalker]

I've kicked plenty of healers for not DPSing and I will continue doing so.

If I see you idling in a fight when there's no healing required and you could deal some damage instead of sitting there, I will vote kick you the second I get the chance.

I've already had a couple of healers sit for a good 30 seconds or more idle without there was no healing needed at all and they were on max MP as well with lucid ready to be used.

Have fun being reported for missusing the vote kick. Kicking healers is dumb tho, especially now when they are most needed. We need more healers, not less thank you.

[Misutoraru]

I don't think this will ever happen for a very simple reason...

This indicates either our healing potency is way too strong or the overall damage we receive is way too low
We don’t have to push to the extreme where only top tier player able to heal through content. We just need push the intensity to a level where majority of players will have much higher healing uptime. I believe our players base skill level is more a bell shape standard deviation rather than the M shape model. In such case we would have majority of players spending more time in healing and top tier player still find room to dps, and being top tier I think they already have the mind set of pushing to the limit
I believe that the meta of heal dps is more to do with “nothing to do”. With this change, even DF would be less boring. It just feel so wrong all I need to do is cast a regen or occasion oGCD heal when boss drop a tank buster, while casting dps skill most of the time

HoT will become more sustain heal or buying healing time for incoming big dmg, or even just some cast and forget skill anyone making minor error in the run, while oGCD would turn into emergency heal, and we could using more GCD heal

Currently running my AST I feel like a weak dps with some healing ability. This is not the type of healer I remember back in 2.0 when even Titan hard mode feel like a threat