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  1. #1
    Player
    Azgarde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    140
    Character
    Az Gardey
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 70

    Worried about Trust system

    Hello there,
    First things first, I've been a FFXIV player since ARR Beta. I've kept my sub active pretty much for the entirety of the game's lifespan up to now. I've also been a WoW player since 2004, as well as diving into other MMOs every now and then.

    With the Trust system announcement, I am really worried the game is removing the MMO aspect of it. It's one thing to share a common world, it's another thing to actually get to play with other players. With the latests interviews, Yoshi-P mentioned they are discussing about expending this Trust system to more than just 5.0 scenario dungeons.

    I do agree there are some good sides to this, especially for people with serious anxiety issues and stuff like that. But in the end, human nature has always been the following:"Why do it with others if I can be served just as well by myself?"

    And then, when will it end ? I see it coming
    "We are implementing Trust system for Normal raids because people want to see content and should not feel forced to play with others"

    And then :" 24 man raids are now doable with 23 NPCs!!!"

    Or: "Savage content is now doable with Trust system, because players who want BiS gear should not feel forced to play in a group"

    Trust system is the way to get rid of the MMO aspect of the game.

    I am seriously scared this is gonna be the downfall of FFXIV is they expand this feature.

    I would really love to say out loud that I've been wrong once it comes out, but honestly, downsides are way more important for that feature alone...

    Now that's my opinion. But I'm worried.
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player
    Jaywalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    472
    Character
    Cenric Asher
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 80
    I don't think you need to worry because using the trust system is optional, we know certain npcs will have set behaviors as limits whereas real players are more adaptable, and you are undoubtedly not the only person who enjoys the MMO aspect. Dutyfinder I suspect might get longer queue times but party finder is likely to thrive.
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    Jonnycbad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    1,876
    Character
    Seraphus Highwynn
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 80
    The literal definition of slippery slope and fear mongering.

    A slippery slope argument, in logic, critical thinking, political rhetoric, and case law, is a consequentialist logical fallacy in which a party asserts that a relatively small first step leads to a chain of related events culminating in some significant (usually negative) effect. The core of the slippery slope argument is that a specific decision under debate is likely to result in unintended consequences. The strength of such an argument depends on the warrant, i.e. whether or not one can demonstrate a process that leads to the significant effect. This type of argument is sometimes used as a form of fearmongering, in which the probable consequences of a given action are exaggerated in an attempt to scare the audience. The fallacious sense of "slippery slope" is often used synonymously with continuum fallacy, in that it ignores the possibility of middle ground and assumes a discrete transition from category A to category B. In a non-fallacious sense, including use as a legal principle, a middle-ground possibility is acknowledged, and reasoning is provided for the likelihood of the predicted outcome.
    (4)

  4. #4
    Player
    Legion88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,443
    Character
    Baradaeg Ryssbhirsyn
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 80
    What we know about Trust is that it requires a huge ton of work to implement it for duties and that is the reason we only get it for the MSQ/Leveling Dungeons of ShB.
    I don't think it will be expanded to endgame dungeons or even trials not to mention anything beyond that.
    (3)

  5. #5
    Player
    Raldo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,403
    Character
    Raldo Volca
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 70
    I'm worried for the opposite reason. I'm worried that their AI will be an absolute train wreck like adventurer squadrons currently are.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    JWag12787's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    63
    Character
    So'suke Seika
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 74
    Quote Originally Posted by Raldo View Post
    I'm worried for the opposite reason. I'm worried that their AI will be an absolute train wreck like adventurer squadrons currently are.

    That was my concern, but they seem to be a bit smarter than squadron counterparts, based on the few previews I've seen. It looks like as long as you follow mechanics, they'll follow them fairly well with you, but if you mess up mechanics, it makes it worse. Time will tell. Looking forward to at least trying it out though.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    Kalise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    1,540
    Character
    Kalise Relanah
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    I'm 99.99% sure that the Trust System will be entirely built around MSQ necessary dungeons.

    No Raids, no Savage, no Ultimate, no EX Trials, no Alliance Raids.

    Just MSQ stuff.

    Why?

    Because there's a sizable group of players, whom are ONLY interested in the story and don't care to gear up or learn how to play the game. It seems at the current stage, that this was whom the Trust system was being targeted at. So that they no longer need to group with others (Causing other players to get annoyed see: That megathread on "Tales from the Duty Finder") so they can have a much smoother progress through the MSQ, especially at off-peak times, as DPS, or any other number of factors that can hamper the availability of players grouping for the required content.

    Since, this would alleviate a LOT of players concerns - The aforementioned players would feel less pressure when they only want to do their MSQ and regular players would get less horribad players in their DF parties.

    As well as allowing SE to have to put in less effort in trying to incentivise players to actually participate in said content (Like, we all know how people feel about the MSQ Roulette right?) - You know, stuff like the current event that gives the irregular tomestones for doing the MSQ duties.

    Especially down the line if they manage to allow for the Trust System to function in pre-ShB MSQ content. Since ARR and HW MSQ duties are becoming less and less relevant with each expansion, while Trusts would ensure that they don't need to remain relevant in order for people to actually progress through MSQ.
    (6)

  8. #8
    Player
    Brightmore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    83
    Character
    Arshtat Lesrekta
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Aaaaah you should not worry...
    Well... not that it makes much difference, anyway.
    Most people rarely talk nowadays in dungeons, they even hardly answer a "Hello!" at the dungeon start.
    So, other than at Quicksand, dunno which human relationship the AI pose as danger...
    (2)

  9. #9
    Player
    guardin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    313
    Character
    Shaiden Nightfall
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 77
    Quote Originally Posted by Azgarde View Post
    Hello there,
    First things first, I've been a FFXIV player since ARR Beta. I've kept my sub active pretty much for the entirety of the game's lifespan up to now. I've also been a WoW player since 2004, as well as diving into other MMOs every now and then.

    With the Trust system announcement, I am really worried the game is removing the MMO aspect of it. It's one thing to share a common world, it's another thing to actually get to play with other players. With the latests interviews, Yoshi-P mentioned they are discussing about expending this Trust system to more than just 5.0 scenario dungeons.

    I do agree there are some good sides to this, especially for people with serious anxiety issues and stuff like that. But in the end, human nature has always been the following:"Why do it with others if I can be served just as well by myself?"

    And then, when will it end ? I see it coming
    "We are implementing Trust system for Normal raids because people want to see content and should not feel forced to play with others"

    And then :" 24 man raids are now doable with 23 NPCs!!!"

    Or: "Savage content is now doable with Trust system, because players who want BiS gear should not feel forced to play in a group"

    Trust system is the way to get rid of the MMO aspect of the game.

    I am seriously scared this is gonna be the downfall of FFXIV is they expand this feature.

    I would really love to say out loud that I've been wrong once it comes out, but honestly, downsides are way more important for that feature alone...

    Now that's my opinion. But I'm worried.
    its IMPOSSIBLE to "remove" the mmo aspect. you gotta remember this isnt about you and this isnt about people. its about the individual and how THEY want to play. just like in real life some people wanna play with people some wanna play alone! The loners have just as much right as the extroverts. Now sleep at night and end this doom and gloom. its a game enjoy and dont worry about the future. SE are masters in this field. they know what they are doing.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player
    GenBroadaxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    60
    Character
    Rowan Broadax
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 70
    From what I've seen, reviews of the TRUST system say it takes longer with the NPCs then it would with PCs so I don't think there's anything to worry about here OP. What I do see this doing is elevating some of the DPS queue wait times if you going back over dungeons for leveling alts or secondary jobs or letting people who want some solo time have that. Regardless of what improvements they've made to NPC's in it, it's not going to be proactive enough to do end game raid/trial content.
    (0)

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