Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Mutemutt]

Those are interesting examples given Moogles can effectively be completely different entities, so long as they have a pom and go 'Kupo'. Ivalician Moogles are one such case in point, compared to Hydaelyn's moogles. In comparison, a genderlock feels... meh as a racial attribute. Both because it's not that the males don't exist, they do, and unlike attributes like "bunny people", genderlocks not only aren't such an attribute, but they have a way of being removed, like in the transition from 1.0->2.0.

It's not to say they couldn't. But why they would. Why do moogles in XIV look that way and say kupo? It's just that common trait you keep bringing back because you can. Don't really need much reason other than reference.

Only thing I can say about the rest of that is I feel differently.

[Lauront]

I wouldn't put too much stock in concept art. I wouldn't be surprised if they had done tons more concept art pieces of things that haven't come to fruition. And don't get the wrong idea; I'm not saying they couldn't do it because of lore reasons. I'm just saying that I expected they would want to do it this way because of the previous Viera lore, or in other words, I expected that they would want to stick to certain aspects of what we know of Viera from other games including the being pratically female only part. I figured it would just be one of those things that would continue, like moogles going kupo and chocobos eating gysahl greens.

If it were just concept art, fine. However, the race was given consideration for inclusion in XIV at the time (HW) and this was in conjunction with that concept art. It was cut at the time in favour of Au Ra, however the presence of the males in the art is highly suggestive of having an idea in mind for what the males should look like. The lore in the other Ivalice games is not that they don't exist but that they're unseen. FFXIV game also involved the reversal of 1.0's genderlocks. I really don't get why people should have expected Viera to be genderlocked. The devs were very evasive about it, for sure, but an interpretation that they were holding off to reveal them at JP Fanfest to build on hype is as consistent with that as the interpretation that they had no plans to add them. And again, one leaker was very unreliable and the Hrothgar leak sent mixed messages.

You can think what you want on it, but my view is that they were silly not to address the earlier concept art and bear part of the blame for the expectations people formed. My suspicion as to why is that they did not want to deal with the heat the genderlock would cause and did not want it to detract from JP Fanfest's excitement - that's fine, but it still has certain consequences.

Now there's also the alternative viewpoint that Yoshi wanted to get in 2 races whilst he could in order to secure senior management approval, with the intention of back-filling the missing gender later on due to being easier than trying to argue for a new race, which I am hoping is the truth of the matter.

[-Mira-]

Hi haven't chimed in on the forums much lately + haven't been reading all the posts here yet (just first post a bit sorry everyone, but phew 344 pages to browse through give me a good big mug of tea and some time to read).

I still wanted to post. Part of me has been playing with the idea of making a viera alt (as I totally stick with my miqo girl~! or so is my plan for now) and dress her a bit more masculine or gender neutral (whatever you prefer to call the style) as a bit of a tomboy or some one with a female body who wants to be a bit more like a boy/man. Not so fully sure on if will I do. I mean in my mind it seems like a fun little challenge, but the problem for me is lack time for alts. I am amazed how some people even just power level all to the max while I'm the sort of person who does want to progress all but sits back takes it easy till I need to take a break from gaming and do other things in the world of reality that need to be done too.

Also now would be the perfect time to make as we do have some clothes with the event that work perfectly for both Genders (I do think the spriggan top and shoes are fine and the clothes + hairstyle based on noctis' are perfect for a project like this). But that then only works on a now random character picking all the items up to change a future viera with this in mind. It is the closest one can be to an official sort of male viera ingame right now. It could be interesting.

If other's are doing this (too?) I'd love to see, maybe some one else even mentioned something similar, but like said haven't really been around on the forums much.

[Mutemutt]

If it were just concept art, fine. However, the race was given consideration for inclusion in XIV at the time (HW) and this was in conjunction with that concept art. It was cut at the time in favour of Au Ra, however the presence of the males in the art is highly suggestive of having an idea in mind for what the males should look like. The lore in the other Ivalice games is not that they don't exist but that they're unseen. FFXIV game also involved the reversal of 1.0's genderlocks. I really don't get why people should have expected Viera to be genderlocked. The devs were very evasive about it, for sure, but an interpretation that they were holding off to reveal them at JP Fanfest to build on hype is as consistent with that as the interpretation that they had no plans to add them. And again, one leaker was very unreliable and the Hrothgar leak sent mixed messages.

Somethings just never make it past the concept stage. That's just how it goes.

Was the reversal of the genderlocks before or after the the 2013(?) interview when Yoshi essentially says if they added female viera they would add another race as the male counterpart instead of male viera? I honestly don't know, but even that far back, that's a pretty good reason to be a little skeptical. And the lore is ending up the same here, which was kinda my point; the male viera are nowhere to be seen -- literally.

[Lauront]

Yup, and then the race moves beyond the concept stage and re-enters the fray.

You're also over-estimating how well known that interview is. It is extremely obscure. The concept art, by comparison, was much better known and again conceived in association with the fact that they were considering Viera at the time. Pretty easy to just say "we're not binding ourselves to any prior concept art designs for the race, so don't rely much on those."

The lore is just a paper-thin excuse to cover a decision motivated by separate concerns. WHM lore makes them even more prohibitively rare. Yet you can play one. It's a non-starter and also the reason they've not doubled down on it since the reaction to the gender-lock. Mooncat man lore is also similar and they're playable. Again, a non-starter. If anything, the lore states that they do exist but don't venture out of the woods - doesn't take much to change that, though, especially if one is called as a WoL.

I think they bear part of the blame in how expectations were formed in this case and it was a consequence of trying to build hype or avoid disappointment before the JP fanfest.

[Mutemutt]

Yup, and then the race moves beyond the concept stage and re-enters the fray.

You're also over-estimating how well known that interview is. It is extremely obscure. The concept art, by comparison, was much better known and again conceived in association with the fact that they were considering Viera at the time. Pretty easy to just say "we're not binding ourselves to any prior concept art designs for the race, so don't rely much on those."

The lore is just a paper-thin excuse to cover a decision motivated by separate concerns. WHM lore makes them even more prohibitively rare. Yet you can play one. It's a non-starter and also the reason they've not doubled down on it since the reaction to the gender-lock. Mooncat man lore is also similar and they're playable. Again, a non-starter. If anything, the lore states that they do exist but don't venture out of the woods - doesn't take much to change that, though, especially if one is called as a WoL.

Though, apparently in this case, it didn't make it past concept. They thought about it, and then went with something else. And I don't think concept art that ancient is really that relevant anyway. They've even showed us more concept of viera for this upcoming expansion -- there were only females though.

I guess they've managed to avoid adding some more glaring lore inconsistencies. I suppose they deserve some applause for that. But honestly, I don't wanna get into the lore talk especially when it's gonna go with the whole "If it ain't fixed, break it" route.

[BillyKaplan]

there were only females though.

Because at that point they had already decided on females only, why work on more male concepts?

I guess they've managed to avoid adding some more glaring lore inconsistencies.

There aren't inconsistencies in the lore because other playable characters don't matter, that's always been the rule of thumb. That's why male Miqo'tes running around still isn't lore breaking - they're fewer in numbers so the one playable character You play as doesn't contradict that, no matter how many other cat boys show up on your screen. Same with WHMs running around, especially with That One Soul Crystal, same with DRKs running around all with Fray's Soul Crystal, same with BLMs running around with Shantotto's Soul Crystal (or in general, you'd think people would panic more if a forbidden art like that was resurrected en-mass). Same with more than one person running around with a Gigi minion, etc.
That's why the lore as given is so... weak. Because it shouldn't matter to the PC, especially when similar lore already exists yet that race-gender option is playable.

[Mutemutt]

Because at that point they had already decided on females only, why work on more male concepts?

That's my point. Thought about it, went in another direction.

[BillyKaplan]

That's my point.

Which is proven right due to hindsight. We've already beaten up the horse where it made sense they were postponing the males for a Tokyo reveal.

[Lauront]

Though, apparently in this case, it didn't make it past concept. They thought about it, and then went with something else. And I don't think concept art that ancient is really that relevant anyway. They've even showed us more concept of viera for this upcoming expansion -- there were only females though.

If we're going down the "ancient" route, the interview is even older and less relevant, particularly since unlike the art, next to no one knew about it, and it predated it. The art, meanwhile, has been widely circulated. It is not unreasonable for people to base expectations on it when it was originally brought about when the race's introduction was first contemplated. Yes, it did not make it past the concept stage - at that point. Naturally, it would go through further iterations - again, something you would expect. What was not expected, for reasons articulated already, was that they would just drop the males, when they already had something in mind for them.

The concept art shown at the EU Fanfest would be consistent with the notion that they were saving the males as a surprise for JP Fanfest. Only after JP Fanfest did the decision to make them female only actually come out.

We're going in circles on this and I don't really see anything being brought to the table which is going to change my mind on the matter. Obscure interviews, unreliable leaks and allusions to lore that did not suffice to invoke gender-locks on other occasions is really not clear communication.