MCH vs BRD

[Jollyy5]

Truth.

Yeah, I joined a static that was looking for a MCH, unlearned a rotation to learn another one, and while I can pull it off, a single lag spike will pretty much destroy everything.

In other words, even after learning a proper MCH rotation, it doesn't feel fun, but instead is incredibly stressful since so many things can ruin it completely, going back to playing literally any other DPS class felt like a relief.

[Hussain]

MCH's rotation #feelsbad. Poorly designed, things align weirdly. You lose your GB intentionally as part of your rotation and have to remember to toggle it back on or you lose out on a huge amount of damage while you do unbuffed shots. Plus, you also lose your turret for like 30 seconds after Overloading it and have to remember to re-summon it....

BRD's rotation is idiot proof, feels rewarding, and is very intuitive. Everything flows and makes sense and therefore damage is high and consistent.

as soon as I read "things align weirdly" I knew you don't even know mch rotation man, it's ok to express your opinion but just don't spread wrong info
and about "remembering to re summon your turret and putting your barrel on" bruh cmon..... if you're struggling to press one button then again you're proving my point , learn the job before you spread wrong information about it , some new players would really like to know the correct stuff
yes mch design is not that good and has some flaws but the only thing about mch that's actually perfect is their burst alignment , anyone who says otherwise know literally nothing about mch rotation

[Jollyy5]

...

Any amount of skillspeed does kinda throw your rotation out of whack, specifically reloads coming off CD when you don't want them to, which can result in a lackluster and/or awkward burst rotation.

As for Gauss Barrel and re-summoning the turret, that's just pointless busywork that doesn't really add anything interesting to gameplay, it's tedious at best.

And the burst rotation is very susceptible to high ping and lag, making it difficult to pull off reliably for too many people, not to mention that if the target dies, goes invulnerable or leaves, your Wildfire is just straight up gone. Sure, in some cases you can learn when the boss is going to go invulnerable, but depending on raid DPS, that timing can change.

Just the fact that we have to use Flamethrower to force Overheat speaks volumes on how fundamentally borked MCH is.

[Levy9]

MCH's rotation #feelsbad. Poorly designed, things align weirdly. You lose your GB intentionally as part of your rotation and have to remember to toggle it back on or you lose out on a huge amount of damage while you do unbuffed shots. Plus, you also lose your turret for like 30 seconds after Overloading it and have to remember to re-summon it....

BRD's rotation is idiot proof, feels rewarding, and is very intuitive. Everything flows and makes sense and therefore damage is high and consistent.

MCH and BLM are my only lvl 70 DPS jobs. MCH doesn't feel clunky to play or poorly designed to me but my frame of reference is small for PvE jobs. Some adjustments are welcome, but I hope they don't over streamline MCH.

I honestly don't see how forgetting to reapply Gauss Barrel is any different from forgetting to put down Leylines on BLM. Both are one-button buffs that substantially increase DPS. Yet, Gauss Barrel seems to be a common gripe people have for MCH, but not with similar abilities on other jobs. *Shrug*.

[Hussain]

Any amount of skillspeed does kinda throw your rotation out of whack, specifically reloads coming off CD when you don't want them to, which can result in a lackluster and/or awkward burst rotation.

As for Gauss Barrel and re-summoning the turret, that's just pointless busywork that doesn't really add anything interesting to gameplay, it's tedious at best.

And the burst rotation is very susceptible to high ping and lag, making it difficult to pull off reliably for too many people, not to mention that if the target dies, goes invulnerable or leaves, your Wildfire is just straight up gone. Sure, in some cases you can learn when the boss is going to go invulnerable, but depending on raid DPS, that timing can change.

Just the fact that we have to use Flamethrower to force Overheat speaks volumes on how fundamentally borked MCH is.

again wrong because you don't have enough experience on the job , there are a lot of sks tiers that will make mch rotation work just fine without any clipping

[SaitoHikari]

again wrong because you don't have enough experience on the job , there are a lot of sks tiers that will make mch rotation work just fine without any clipping

The argument isn't about experience. No one cares how good you are at playing the class if the design still sucks. The burst alignment may be good, but it's everything else that happens outside of it that leaves a sour taste in most people's mouths. It also doesn't help at all that MCH feels incredibly weak during the level-up process until they reach level 70, which has probably chased countless people off of the class.

No one's arguing that MCH is actually bad meta-wise. People think BLM and SAM are bad meta-wise yet tons of people still play them. Everyone's arguing that MCH simply doesn't exist because most people don't want to play them period, and for good reason.

[lulunami]

BRD personal DPS varies a lot due to Crit procs, so you will see larger deviations compared to MCH. Sometimes you snapshot the correct raid buffs but you just get little to no procs. Other times, you keep hitting Refulgent Arrow, Bloodletter, and Pitch Perfect one after another for a while.

BRD is easier to play at a base level than MCH. MCH has a much stricter rotation compared to BRD. You have to keep pressing your buttons in a certain order to keep your potency up and align your buffs/moves for Wildfire every minute. There are several Wildfire variations based on your proc luck if you want to be optimal. If you mess up on BRD, it is probably okay to fix your rotation since random procs may favor you that run.

[Dyvid]

MCH and BLM are my only lvl 70 DPS jobs. MCH doesn't feel clunky to play or poorly designed to me but my frame of reference is small for PvE jobs. Some adjustments are welcome, but I hope they don't over streamline MCH.

I honestly don't see how forgetting to reapply Gauss Barrel is any different from forgetting to put down Leylines on BLM. Both are one-button buffs that substantially increase DPS. Yet, Gauss Barrel seems to be a common gripe people have for MCH, but not with similar abilities on other jobs. *Shrug*.

Gauss Barrel always felt gimmicky to me ever since HW. Personally I wouldn't mind if they just dropped the barrel, added the 2.5 cast timer back, and have bullets remove cast timer like in 3.0. I think with Dancer coming into the mix, SE should focus more on making Turrets into a Shaman like buff mechanic.

[Popotato]

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I'm glad someone in this thread actually plays MCH.

MCH's rotation #feelsbad. Poorly designed, things align weirdly. You lose your GB intentionally as part of your rotation and have to remember to toggle it back on or you lose out on a huge amount of damage while you do unbuffed shots. Plus, you also lose your turret for like 30 seconds after Overloading it and have to remember to re-summon it....

Saying that things align weirdly... Well, that's just not true. MCH's abilities align so well to a fault. It's because of how well MCH abilities align that cause MCH to have such little opportunity for optimisation.

I can understand forgetting to put up your turret after an overdrive, but forgetting to put on Gauss Barrel...? You must be in some serious autopilot for that to even happen. Either way though, I don't see those as flaws of the job. It's just how the job operates. It's like saying "I hate forgetting to keep track of my mana and don't Foe's Requiem soon enough". That's just a part of the job that you have to learn, which you are very much free to dislike, but you can't attribute your rotational mistakes as a flaw in the job. On the other hand...

As for Gauss Barrel and re-summoning the turret, that's just pointless busywork that doesn't really add anything interesting to gameplay, it's tedious at best.

This is fair enough. There's no reason for Gauss Barrel to be a button. There's no reason for your turret to disappear after and overdrive. They both can stay on and not affect gameplay all that much, but I personally don't mind having to use them again.

Any amount of skillspeed does kinda throw your rotation out of whack, specifically reloads coming off CD when you don't want them to, which can result in a lackluster and/or awkward burst rotation.

This is an issue with just about every job. Every job has skill speed tiers and skill speed dead zones. MCH does hate Sks in general, but it isn't to do with oGCD clipping, but rather with heat generation and Rapid Fire. The amount of unavoidable Sks in the current raid tier makes 2 ammo rotation essentially dead on MCH, or at least it was until Eureka gear came out. The other part of Sks being useless is due to damage being heavily centralised on WF, the majority of which is under Rapid Fire which doesn't get affected by Sks.

The argument isn't about experience. No one cares how good you are at playing the class if the design still sucks. The burst alignment may be good, but it's everything else that happens outside of it that leaves a sour taste in most people's mouths. It also doesn't help at all that MCH feels incredibly weak during the level-up process until they reach level 70, which has probably chased countless people off of the class.

The rotation outside of WF is definitely bland, but the much more prevalent argument I see for people disliking MCH is that they dislike having all their damage comes from one window. Each to their own. The leveling experience definitely isn't great, but overheating literally doesn't matter before level 64. There's no downside to overheating when you don't have heated shots yet, it's always a DPS gain. It's only the short period of level 64 and 65 that is pretty dysfunctional.

[Shadygrove]

If you screw up the MCH rotation your DPS plummets like a Monty Python sheep. And its quite rigid.

BRD is way more fluid but you have to keep an eye out for procs.

I liked MCH in HW, leveled it to 70 in SB but never play it vastly perfering BRD.

YMMV.