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  1. #1
    Player
    kyomaZZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    39
    Character
    Kyouma Hououin
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 70

    Unkillable healers

    I just want to ask a simple question from the developers, to those who responsible for PvP balance.

    I play a lot of Pvp (frontline roulette usually) because i just getting bored the same duty Roulette EX,60/70 and the rest of ,[thetankpulleverything0mechanicsrequired], same dungeons over and over again thing every day.
    But im not come here to rage or flame,pick a fight etc...

    SO i get to the point: whats this balance with the Healers? today me (MCH) and a BRD teammate caught up an enemy WHM, and we try to kill her for 5min...and we cant.. i used the correct best rotation for MCH, and the WHM just stand there (not even try to run away), regen and cure2 herself and we cant kill her for more than 5 min until she run out of MP.

    Seriously the healers should be the most vulnerable role in pvp and the rest of the team should work together to protect them
    this is ridiculous
    (10)

  2. #2
    Player
    silverlunarfox's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Shirogane
    Posts
    1,002
    Character
    Lynn Spellwind
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    I had a match in frontline roulette in shatter, it was 8v8v8, and maelstrom after getting stomped, switched to have 5 healers....yeah....attempting to go after them was a waste of time. So we had to get creative. We won, but it was just a bit ridiculous....

    Healers do need to be looked at.
    (7)

    "Within each of us, the potential for great power waits to be released."

  3. #3
    Player
    ThirdChild_ZKI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    3,230
    Character
    Lace Valeria
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 70
    MCH and BRD burst (while one is notably quicker and easier than the other) would be more than enough to delete any healer, but you'd basically have to do it together. That instant wombo combo of damage would easily wipe out any healer. (Though I admit when I find one of those healers that want to try and tank through things, I VERY much enjoy forcing them to run dry).

    Despite all the heat I'd take for saying it, making healer casts shorter AND setting healing potencies well above DPS damage potencies puts DPS at a natural loss, damage vs healing wise, which only emphasizes the need for effective cc and strong burst damage, something not as doable in 4.x PvP as it was in 3.x.

    EDIT: Hit my post limit for the day, so I have to respond here, and this is directly to Crit:

    First, I haven't been at all coy or subtle about why I dislike 4.x PvP. You can read just about any thread here. Second, you don't know me well enough to make a comment like you did. However, if you'd like to find out firsthand what I know and what I can do, I'm more than happy to accept all challenges.
    (0)
    Last edited by ThirdChild_ZKI; 02-10-2018 at 02:46 AM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Crit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Litter box in wolves den
    Posts
    142
    Character
    Crit Ful
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI View Post
    MCH and BRD burst (while one is notably quicker and easier than the other) would be more than enough to delete any healer, but you'd basically have to do it together. That instant wombo combo of damage would easily wipe out any healer. (Though I admit when I find one of those healers that want to try and tank through things, I VERY much enjoy forcing them to run dry).

    Despite all the heat I'd take for saying it, making healer casts shorter AND setting healing potencies well above DPS damage potencies puts DPS at a natural loss, damage vs healing wise, which only emphasizes the need for effective cc and strong burst damage, something not as doable in 4.x PvP as it was in 3.x.
    Jesus now I know why you hate 4.x PvP, you don't know how to play it!!!!

    Any melee + range/melee bursting together at the same time will kill something. End of discussion, this thread is unnecessary
    (9)

  5. #5
    Player
    Zojha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    3,567
    Character
    Lodestone Bait
    World
    Pandaemonium
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI View Post
    MCH and BRD burst (while one is notably quicker and easier than the other) would be more than enough to delete any healer, but you'd basically have to do it together.
    Well, you have 2 seconds of Barrel overload stun to deal 14000 damage, after that the OGCD heals come in (which can't be silenced).

    Barrage/Pitch Perfect is 2k. Empyreal Arrow 1k. Sidewinder 1,5k. Dots 750. Straight Shot 1k. Total Damage you can do in that time: 6250.
    MCH... roundabout math: Overload 1k, BTE 3k, Heated Clean Shot 1,75k. Let's say two GCDs due to pre-load and put it at 7000. With Troubadour and Overheat buffs and absolutely perfect coordination and setup and the healer not using a shield/defense buff or concentration beforehand, nor using Purify to get out earlier, that could work, provided the healer doesn't have a tank helping him that is capable of just as much coordination.

    I wouldn't say it's "more than enough", though. You just barely make it.

    As for the topic, in general, well... they don't even attempt to balance healers and pretty much admitted to it in a roundabout way. They instead purposely (over)tune them to make them more popular, likely in another attempt to salvage their "premium" mode Feast, which has been plagued with a lack of healers since the dawn of time.

    It's unlikely to change anytime soon, so far most of their decisions (Astragalos aside) actually seem to go into the opposite direction, so I'd say: Don't like it? Don't play it. The devs have no intention to balance power, they want a balanced population.
    (1)
    Last edited by Zojha; 02-10-2018 at 02:45 AM.

  6. #6
    Player
    Crit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Litter box in wolves den
    Posts
    142
    Character
    Crit Ful
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 70
    ^^^
    Yeah hyperbole aside from my statement too, two dps can't kill anything 100% of the time, the damage or support (soul survivor/cc) from the tank is also necessary to guarantee kills

    But 2 dps could just farm a ranged over and over
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    Mirch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    810
    Character
    Mirchea Luslec
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 70
    a bard and a mch not being able to take down a healer, you lack coordination, experience and knowledge. keep practice up
    (4)

  8. #8
    Player
    Sylvain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    976
    Character
    Sylvestre Solscribe
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 70
    I think the main issue is the mana cost who are too low especially for the bigger heals.
    I don't think it is too much of a problem that a healer can overheal 2 dps by using his stronger moves., but that should be temporary and not a sustainable strategy. 5min doesn't sound very temporary to me.

    I think making healer run oom should be much easier, they're just too sustainable it's annoying.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player
    Risvertasashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,433
    Character
    Makani Risvertasashi
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Crit View Post
    ^^^
    Yeah hyperbole aside from my statement too, two dps can't kill anything 100% of the time, the damage or support (soul survivor/cc) from the tank is also necessary to guarantee kills
    The real problem with the OP is BRD + MCH. They're fully mobile, so their DPS is lower. Try using a BLM or something.
    (1)
    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida View Post
    While I cannot give a specific date on when personal housing will be implemented, I can say that prices will be completely separate from free company housing, and, naturally, far more affordable.
    A: In older MMOs, such as Ultima Online, there was a house maintenance fee you had to pay weekly, but in FFXIV: ARR we decided against this system. Similarly, these older MMOs also had a system where your house would break down if you didn’t log in after a while in order to have you continue your subscription, but this is a thing of the past and we won't have any system like that.

  10. #10
    Player
    Sunako's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1,273
    Character
    Sunako Kirishiki
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 70
    It is probably easier understand healer, if you play one yourself and play feast. After gold rank you may notice it is not that easy keep everybody alive anymore.
    (6)

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