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  1. #521
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    3,875
    Character
    Aurelie Moonsong
    World
    Typhon
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 80
    Re. rules against disclosing real-world information: this may well be to protect Square Enix from being legally responsible for any consequences of people revealing their personal information - especially if it somehow got intercepted, or accidentally displayed in a public channel, or something. If anything happens, they just say "we said they shouldn't, so it's not our responsibility that they did."

    Nobody is actually going to report their friend for giving them requested contact details, after all!



    Quote Originally Posted by NessaWyvern View Post
    Someone earlier mentioned with the new rules how someone could be banned for saying "Hi" and here is an example how.
    One player "Hi"
    Other player "I was deeply offended at another player's use of the word " Hi". The way they spoke to me was far too informal, considering the fact we had not even met before. Their familiarity was deeply unsettling for me. Not only that, but everybody knows that "Hi" is an acronym for "Huge Idiot" so [the player] was being incredibly rude and belittling. "

    You can get penalised for offending another player, even if it wasn't your intention, under these new rules, so trolls could exploit it by reporting in the manner seen above.
    There is a very critical factor that you're overlooking in this scenario.

    The rules say that you may (ie: if the GM judges it appropriate) get penalised if the other person took offence where you didn't mean it. Not that you will.

    The GM still has to decide whether this is a valid complaint or not. It's not automatically in the reporter's favour just because they claim they were offended.

    Even if the GM "accepts" that the reporter feels offended, they are not required to take any action against you because it is not required. It is only an option that is open to them if the case calls for it.

    And any sort of "GM having a bad day" scenario would surely be taken out against the reporter rather than their target. Seriously, how vindictive and petty would someone be to choose to uphold a report like that and go through the process of punishing someone and logging a caution against their account because they said 'hi'?



    Quote Originally Posted by Lium View Post
    Would be helpful if they clarified that [it's aimed at MSQ cutscene skipping], because I have TERRIBLE internet service that causes me to frequently lag out and disconnect. Sometimes the best thing for me to do for the sake of the group is leave or shut the game down so they can get someone else in there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Its_Elodie View Post
    So how exactly do they intend to implement the part of this revision to the tos regarding “intentional” disconnects? I 90k maybe three times a week on average because our net is weak sauce, but the thought of possibly getting reprimanded in game for my isp is absolutely ludicrous.
    I assume, if you got investigated for that, they'd see it's genuinely random - dropping suddenly mid-battle, coming back and trying again, etc.

    Deliberate disconnecting is going to be a very different pattern - repeatedly "disconnecting" just as they load into certain dungeons, or every time a cutscene starts in a MSQ roulette dungeon. (Plus what they do once they reconnect - a genuine disconnect during a cutscene would *hopefully* be polite and wait for the rest of the party to be released from the cutscene lock.



    Quote Originally Posted by AelisDuNochd View Post
    ■Nuisance behaviour
    "Nuisance behaviour" means speech or behaviour that hurts others or obstructs game play, but which is not classified as harassment. Even if it was not the intention, a penalty may be imposed if the end result was that another person was hurt or obstructed.
    This flat out states that your intention doesn't matter, only someone elses feelings. This means that someone can just accuse someone of being hurt by their words for any reasons and get them banned.
    Again: a penalty may, not will, be imposed.

    Also there are cautions and warnings (not required to escalate each time) before someone gets even a temporary ban for a minor issue.



    Quote Originally Posted by Shuuchi View Post
    Please refer to my post on page 44 if you want more info.
    Side note on forum function: "page 44" isn't a useful reference because people can change the number of posts displayed per page. (This is still only a 14-page thread for me.)

    If you want to point to a specific post, you need to refer to the post number in the upper-right corner of the individual post - and this is actually a hyperlink from which you can copy the URL and use it to directly link to the post from anywhere.
    (4)

  2. #522
    Player
    Naryoril's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    156
    Character
    Y'sira Fhela
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    My take on the new rules is: they made them sound stricter than they will actually be policed, just to be on the safe side so nobody will be able to complain "but that dick thing i did doesn't violate the rules, so you are not allowed to ban me". It doesn't mean that they will ban everyone who has a different opinion than somebody else. It will also most likely come down to HOW you say stuff. Just don't be a dick and i doubt you'll ever have problems.
    (8)

  3. #523
    Player
    Kaedan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,750
    Character
    Kaedan Burkhardt
    World
    Atomos
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Naryoril View Post
    My take on the new rules is: they made them sound stricter than they will actually be policed, just to be on the safe side so nobody will be able to complain "but that dick thing i did doesn't violate the rules, so you are not allowed to ban me". It doesn't mean that they will ban everyone who has a different opinion than somebody else. It will also most likely come down to HOW you say stuff. Just don't be a dick and i doubt you'll ever have problems.
    Precisely this.

    People are overreacting. They aren't going to be banning left and right just for minor things or false accusations.
    (8)

  4. #524
    Player
    noxen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    168
    Character
    Ryta Golmarr
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 80
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ew_behavioral/ Read this, take a damn chill pill, close the thread.
    (5)

  5. #525
    Player
    Dragonhand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    61
    Character
    Maffer Dragonhand
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 70
    If you check my acc, you know that I've been around since 1.0 beta. Adobe then this is the first time I preordered an expansion and I'm already regretting it.
    This is not proper costumer care and I do not want it in the service I'm paying for.
    I want to have the right to be called out of some one things I'm playing poorly, it's the only way to improve, is some one calling out my mistakes. I don't care if he is harsh or an ass, I want him to have the right to tell me what he wants to tell me.
    When 70% of the communication is interpreted as some for off hate speech then it's not hate speech, because 70%represent the norm. It's the normal way we humans comunicate, some times we are kind some times we are not. Taking offense over a stranger words is a childish thing to do and controlling the speech of players is censorship.
    Now, unlike many of the player base and support staff of SE, I've live in a country that was opposed under a dictatorship with heavy censorship for many years. The scars of such times yet remain and the lack of freedom of expression made us culturally more poor. This is what you are trying to bring to Eorzea, censorship, making the community poor and removing what made it authentic. This is a level on moral incompetence I do not admit and if I have to deal with it even one, I'm out of this game because it is just absurd. I have to deal with the fruits is censorship on a daily basis, I do not want to deal with the in a video game.
    (6)

  6. #526
    Player
    zztoluca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    70
    Character
    Zi Zizi
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by noxen View Post
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ew_behavioral/ Read this, take a damn chill pill, close the thread.
    It doesn't matter what one GM says when the policy changes say otherwise. They are vague and open to interpretations as any GM sees fit to enforce.

    If these changes didnt mean anything why even implement them in the first place?

    Ill paraphrase an analogy posted earlier: "They are adding an axe over the head of the users. They may say they will never use it, but that does not change the fact that there is now an axe that could be used at their discretion. When before there wasnt one to begin with."
    (7)

  7. #527
    Player
    WaterShield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    349
    Character
    Lalah Elakta
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiraelina View Post
    It's also yet another example of trying to insert logic into this that doesn't exist. By your own example the healer states they don't want to because its stressful or because they can't do it very well, the why doesn't really matter. It's going to be right on the tank if they want to make it difficult by forcing wipes because he refuses to adapt in a roulette. What's the tank going to do if the healer is too poorly geared for/simply can't handle large pulls or the DPS can't do enough damage? Throw a tantrum and force everyone to wait out the kick timer? If you 100% want your way, go make a manual group and stay the hell out of roulette if you can't adapt to whatever hand you are dealt.

    There's more than enough clarity if everyone would take a step back instead of plotting passive aggressive scenarios as a "Told you so!". You are the only one that can dig your grave when it comes to these if you get reported for something.
    This is yet another example of trying to insert logic into this that doesn't exist. By you own example the Tank states that they want to do large pulls because it's an endgame dungeon with everyone geared and presumably ready for this. The healer dissents because they want to watch Netflix while they play, though the why doesn't really matter. It's going to be right on the healer if they want to make it difficult by forcing wipes because he refuses to adapt in a roulette. What's the healer going to do when 3 other people want to go fast ? Throw a tantrum and force everyone to wait out the kick timer? If you 100% want your way, go make a manual group and stay out of roulette if you can't adapt to whatever hand you are dealt.

    FYI this is why people are upset. The rules as written mean that everyone is breaking the rules anytime they encounter someone who disagrees with them on anything. This means both people here are breaking the rules. Technically all 4 in the dungeon run are as they are both attempting to compel the other side into a differing play style.

    Now try and tell me that people shouldn't be upset by this.
    (6)

  8. #528
    Player
    Dragonhand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    61
    Character
    Maffer Dragonhand
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 70
    I consider censorship a form of harassment. By consequence I find the new the rules a form of harassment.
    I, hereby, report Square Enix for harassment. According to the new rules, such behavior is rewarded with a ban.
    (6)

  9. #529
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    3,875
    Character
    Aurelie Moonsong
    World
    Typhon
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonhand View Post
    I consider censorship a form of harassment. By consequence I find the new the rules a form of harassment.
    I, hereby, report Square Enix for harassment. According to the new rules, such behavior is rewarded with a ban.
    Sure, you're welcome to submit that report - but good luck getting Square Enix to accept it as valid.
    (4)

  10. #530
    Player
    Tiraelina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    468
    Character
    Tiraelina Kyara
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by HyoMinPark View Post
    Your example isn’t much different, to be honest.

    Why can’t the healer adapt in a roulette? Why does it have to be the tank?

    What if the healer is in full i390/400 gear and the DPS are doing “enough damage”?
    What is this healer adapting to when the tank is overwhelming them beyond their capability and probably wiping the group? The healer spoke up for a reason being gear, skill or whatever it doesn't really matter, it was disregarded. That sure was a battle worth fighting, lots of time saved doing all that dying and/or anything else that came of it vs just doing smaller pulls..

    Quote Originally Posted by HyoMinPark View Post
    When did I say the tank was going to throw a tantrum? What if the healer did this?
    You didn't because it's an example I've personally seen play out? That whole thing about work with your group in roulette. If you want to get hostile over a simple request as either role, here's your shovel. Same goes for trying to be the rebel and ignoring them and instead causing repeated wipes and wasting any time you might have saved by simply adjusting, they're usually the one to blow up after if they don't just drop.

    Quote Originally Posted by HyoMinPark View Post
    The same can be said to the healer?
    Yes, and? The tank is responsible for setting the pace of the group according to it's capability, this is part of the role. If they push too hard and just wipe the group repeatedly because the healer or dps can't deal with it, it's not the rest of the groups fault. If they can't handle every group not being identical...

    Quote Originally Posted by HyoMinPark View Post
    You’re literally proving my point. These guidelines can be spun to fit anything. So who wins? Who is “right”?

    I’m not trying to do a “Told you so!”, but thank you for assuming. Comparing this Code of Conduct to other MMOs’ codes of conducts, the latter examples give explicit examples of things that are strictly prohibited, and none of them have strange guidelines like “unilaterally rejecting another’s opinion” or “compelling a playstyle” or “contravene (undefined) morals”. That’s all people are asking for, because these “guidelines” carry the connotation of “anything that offends someone”, which is incredibly vague.

    But, that’s just too much to ask for, I guess.
    If you want to completely disregard the meaning and intentions behind the guidelines and then isolate it from the game, yeah you can make it look like anything to look worse than it is. Does that make it any more accurate? No. Giving someone advice in a polite manner without sass and belittlement isn't going to get you banned no matter how hard you will it. Who wins and is right? The part of the group not dragging them through the mud over a couple minutes in a roulette.

    Your example is basically doing that. "This is bad because of this contrived situation that won't happen! Just watch!" You should actually go and read the CoC, EULA and ToS for other online games and their involved services, both what they are and are not saying. Open ended language is common because they're not going to write a 500 page document detailing how to not be your average XBL player sending death threats because you killed them in a game. Lack of language carries its own meaning that they are more than likely handled case by case by the CS team. Except now you are now completely in the dark. Let that one sink in.

    Quote Originally Posted by HyoMinPark View Post
    Why would the tank have to concede? How is larger pulls “obstructive behavior”? Tiraelina said that you have to deal with the hand you’re dealt with in roulettes... except apparently in the case of this healer? Where they are allowed to now dictate the pace of the tank/party? The tank is suddenly the one who has to deal, but why is this not being applied to the healer? What makes them exempt from “dealing with the hand you’re dealt with”?
    This is why I asked what that tank is going to do if the rest of the group can't perform to their standards. Like not wiping to large groups. You chose to avoid it though.

    Quote Originally Posted by WaterShield View Post
    This is yet another example of trying to insert logic into this that doesn't exist. By you own example the Tank states that they want to do large pulls because it's an endgame dungeon with everyone geared and presumably ready for this. The healer dissents because they want to watch Netflix while they play, though the why doesn't really matter. It's going to be right on the healer if they want to make it difficult by forcing wipes because he refuses to adapt in a roulette. What's the healer going to do when 3 other people want to go fast ? Throw a tantrum and force everyone to wait out the kick timer? If you 100% want your way, go make a manual group and stay out of roulette if you can't adapt to whatever hand you are dealt.

    FYI this is why people are upset. The rules as written mean that everyone is breaking the rules anytime they encounter someone who disagrees with them on anything. This means both people here are breaking the rules. Technically all 4 in the dungeon run are as they are both attempting to compel the other side into a differing play style.

    Now try and tell me that people shouldn't be upset by this.
    This is what happens when you remove context from what you are reading and stick it into its own bubble.
    (2)

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