I'm thinking Dark Knight's rework will be more extensive than I initially thought.

[Kalise]

I think it's ok for jobs within a role to have an advantage/disadvantage to each other. It makes them unique. If WAR is the preferred MT, PLD the OT, and DRK the switch hitter, then each of them have a niche and also an identity amongst themselves. MT/OT and swapping between both can also be referred to as the playstyles a person playing tank prefers, and I think it's kind of neat if a tank is designed in a way to conform to certain playstyles so long as it can perform well in all duties.

Nothing is denying you from playing how you want to this way. You have three and soon to be four tanks to choose from, and having them all leveled makes you a more versatile tank overall if it is the role you main and want to take into high-end duties. Just focus on the one you enjoy the most first when it comes to obtaining a BiS weapon.

I think the concern comes from how they might end up changing and balancing the tanks though.

Without more information which we'll get from the next Fanfest, we only have a couple of quotes from Yoshida about the direction in which they're taking tanks.

One aspect, is they're wanting to remove the current "Triangle" of tanks, where you have your MT (WAR), OT (PLD) and the class no-one really wants, the Switch (DRK).

How they go about removing this "Triangle" can be done in a number of ways, not all of them good.

For example, it was mentioned that they might balance 2 tanks to be MT's and 2 to be OT's - The fact that this was specified, rather than saying they'll balance them to be able to perform both roles but have some strengths in one role, can mean they might make it so that the MT's don't really perform well in the OT role and vice versa.

Like, ideally all 4 tanks would be like DRK, being able to comfortably play either role and still bring enough to justify their use. With maybe a few extra unique aspects that make them a bit better in one role over another. An example would be WAR being slightly better at being MT because Holmgang is a low CD skill that negates a Tankbuster, something that is unique to WAR but that wouldn't mean they're so far above a more OT focused tank like say, PLD, that PLD wouldn't be seen as useful in the MT role.

But according to Yoshida's quote, they're currently looking at either making 2 MT's and 2 OT's OR looking to make all 4 tanks able to perform both duties.

This leaves open the concern where they might make it so that each tank only can really fit into 1 position come end-game raiding. Which would suck if someone really liked a certain Tank due to aesthetics, lore or general gameplay, but preferred the role that it wasn't balanced for.

Which isn't a particularly out-there thought, given the state that WHM and MCH have been in for a while in regards to end-game raiding (I.e. Where both of them are just plain inferior to other options in their role and thus not wanted)

[Izsha]

Job identities should have no bearing on some meta niche its stuck in. Statements like war is good at enmity or pld ie good at OT arent identities. Can you imagine if the design team said "our inspiration for gunbreaker play is to be the enmity tank". That's horrible. The fact that war can pull with cheap enmity and pld cant is a problem, not a niche to fill. All tanks should be able to pull effectively. Tank effectively. And be useful while OT. HOW they achieve those tasks can be varied and that is how jobs get cool and fun.

Drk can still be an intense resource cycling class with strong dot and use that style to achieve mt, ot, and pull. War can still be a burst damage hp barbarian tank and do all of those (if given something to do as OT with a berserker twist. Pld can have better snap aggro without compromising it's current protective knight with holy magic fantasy.

There is a minimum bar all tanks can meet to prevent pigeonholing. How they achieve those tasks should be unique to their concept. But it is not an either or problem. We can and should have both.

Dont confuse this with the meta. There will always be an optimal grouping. But that is not the same as sticking tanks in a pigeonhole or balance via triangles/tiers by design.

I can only hope they abandon splitting tanks into two categories idea in favor of their 2nd idea where all are capable as just tanks.

[Derio]

I dont think they will get rid of Dark Arts. However i do think they will restrict how often you can use it. Maybe even a 15s cooldown.

My guess is that syphon strike will get its DA removed, Quietus will get its DA removed, and Plunge will get its DA removed but keep the bonus enmity generation if DA was used.

I hope they go the route of making it to where all 4 tanks can MT instead of the 2 designated MT and 2 designated OT.

I hope DRK gets that WAR treatment this expansion where all the devs cater to it until the job is perfect, or at least close to the amount of attention WAR got.

[Izsha]

I dont think they will get rid of Dark Arts. However i do think they will restrict how often you can use it. Maybe even a 15s cooldown.

My guess is that syphon strike will get its DA removed, Quietus will get its DA removed, and Plunge will get its DA removed but keep the bonus enmity generation if DA was used.

I hope they go the route of making it to where all 4 tanks can MT instead of the 2 designated MT and 2 designated OT.

I hope DRK gets that WAR treatment this expansion where all the devs cater to it until the job is perfect, or at least close to the amount of attention WAR got.

I wouldn't hold my breath on the DA spam going down. Gun breaker having an ammo mechanic will compete with a slow charge enhancer that fits your 15 sec DA description. One of the two systems will be similar to drk. The other would be similar to smn/sch aetherflow stacks (like your 15 sec example). They certainly wont be the same so I'd hazard drk will keep it's faster pace resource flow gameplay and gun gets the aetherflow style slow and calculated resource management.

Entirely speculation of course, but that's my guess. Drk would stay as drk has always been while gun would bring the new style.

[Seraphor]

I dont think they will get rid of Dark Arts. However i do think they will restrict how often you can use it. Maybe even a 15s cooldown.

My guess is that syphon strike will get its DA removed, Quietus will get its DA removed, and Plunge will get its DA removed but keep the bonus enmity generation if DA was used.

I hope they go the route of making it to where all 4 tanks can MT instead of the 2 designated MT and 2 designated OT.

I hope DRK gets that WAR treatment this expansion where all the devs cater to it until the job is perfect, or at least close to the amount of attention WAR got.

DA Syphon Strike is essential to prevent you breaking MP cap when you use SS.

DA Quietus is our best AoE attack and best MP generator.

DA potency on Plunge I could take or leave, but to use it for emnity is the best way to pull a boss.

I second Izsha on the prediction that Gunbreaker will have a similar but less spammy mechanic, so to reduce DA spam would actually make it too similar to Gunbreaker.

[Phoenicia]

The other would be similar to smn/sch aetherflow stacks.

I don't know why people are thinking "SMN/SCH stacks" when we already have an AMMUNITION job in the form of MCH that reloads in sets of 3 or 1 at a time which would definitely more likely fit more the gunbreaker's system than a once a minute 3-move burst phase. Just a bit of semantics that bothers me.

[Izsha]

I personally think that because having 2 gun jobs with near identical mechanics would be a strange design choice. SE would want to make it very distinct from the DA spamming drk while also make it more than just a copy paste of mch primary mechanic.

However a slight tweak to a charge based mechanic would make more sense to bring a unique playstyle. Slower resource management diesnt copy paste either pet job because they are so wildly different than a physical dps. Pets, dot based dps, healers, summoning bahamut. Smn/sch will still be more than unique if a tank borrows 1 element. Mch and drk entirely center around their ammo/da mechanics so it doesnt make sense to use their cores as gunbreakers core imo.

It would create a much more unique experience that is a large departure from the existing 3 tanks without stealing another jobs thunder.

[Rongway]

I don't know why people are thinking "SMN/SCH stacks"

when we already have an AMMUNITION job in the form of MCH that reloads in sets of 3 or 1 at a time which would definitely more likely fit more the gunbreaker's system than a once a minute 3-move burst phase. Just a bit of semantics that bothers me.

This describes an Aetherflow-like mechanic.

The bullet above it describes something like MCH's ammo mechanic. The two mechanics are listed separately.

[Kabooa]

This describes an Aetherflow-like mechanic.

The bullet above it describes something like MCH's ammo mechanic. The two mechanics are listed separately.

It sounds more like Warrior's Beast Gauge, where the Gunbreaker gains a bonus based on how high the gauge is, but most spend gauge for special abilities.

I'm thinking some inspiration has come from Nero in DMC4, whose weapon, Red Queen, utilized a gauge for both basic attack improvement but also enabled his strongest swings.

I can see Gunbreaker's gauge being anywhere from 3-6 "Slots", and their abilities expending between 1 and 4 slots, while each filled Slot gives them a bonus.

A shotgun like ability cone would cost 3 for example, while a standard "Trigger" for additional damage is 1, and then the big'ole abilities in a 'Full Auto' sense just empty your clip for a potency dump.

[Rongway]

It sounds more like Warrior's Beast Gauge, where the Gunbreaker gains a bonus based on how high the gauge is, but most spend gauge for special abilities.

I'm thinking some inspiration has come from Nero in DMC4, whose weapon, Red Queen, utilized a gauge for both basic attack improvement but also enabled his strongest swings.

I can see Gunbreaker's gauge being anywhere from 3-6 "Slots", and their abilities expending between 1 and 4 slots, while each filled Slot gives them a bonus.

A shotgun like ability cone would cost 3 for example, while a standard "Trigger" for additional damage is 1, and then the big'ole abilities in a 'Full Auto' sense just empty your clip for a potency dump.

In general I would say that's not an unreasonable interpretation, but as per the ShB trailer and the concept of revolver-type gunblades, I don't think building a scaling bonus like Beast Gauge would fit. Ammo sits inert in the cylinder until fired. It wouldn't make sense for it to give a bonus while it's just sitting there.

But in the sense that any job that has an "instantly fill gauge" ability could be compared to an Aetherflow ability, sure. Some gauges just get spent in increments of 50 or 20 instead of increments of 1. But an Aetherflow mechanic sounds like the best fit for the bullet point on this slide, when coupled with the reasonable expectation that ammo will have a limit on the order of 6.