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  1. #11
    Player
    Bright-Flower's Avatar
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    Jul 2018
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    1,118
    Character
    Karen Bright-flower
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by CaesarCV View Post
    I kind of agree with the points of others here. The Elemental aspect of Primals is really only terribly important for the ARR primals, who actually do tend to follow that dynamic. Many of them don't really seem to follow or care about the elemental aspect at all. I think that part of this is because in 1.0 Primals were assumed to have very different lore attached to them, to the point that they seemed to be actual static entities in the lifestream rather than aetherial constructs. This started to change more in 2.0, especially with the remade Moggle Mog, which was our first implication that primals are based off of legends and aren't necessarily real gods. As time went on, it became increasingly clear that Primals are not some sort of aspected deities, but entities created off of beliefs and even feelings.

    We've seen primals like Shiva and Thordan, who are mythologized versions of historical figures. It's unknown if the original Shiva had any connection to Ice at all, although her famed husband definitely does. We've seen primals like Alexander, who is based off of a Utopian ideal, or primals like Shinryu who is an abstract representation of rage. Some of them have vague (or not so vague) elemental theming, but it's really secondary or even irrelevant to their status as constructs of prayer and belief. Basically, whatever aspect they share honestly doesn't seem to matter much.

    You probably don't even need to use Aether of a particular aspect to summon a specific primal. After all, Ysayle used the (presumably not water aspected) crystals of the Vath to summon Shiva with no problems. You can definitely guess at Elemental Aspects, but frankly they do not appear to matter at all.
    I think I read somewhere that the ARR primals (sans Moggle Mog) lining up with the six elements was a coincidence, and that may well be true considering Ifrit, Shiva, Leviathan, and Ramuh especially are all pretty iconic and recurring summons. Titan as Garuda too but I think I see them in less games.

    For Shiva, I believe it was suggested in one of the lore books that her ice theming may have been borrowed from Halone worship, where she's one of the ice aspected gods. And that Ramuh worship likewise may have been based on Rhalgr, often depicted as an old man and with lightning element.
    (0)

  2. #12
    Player
    Eloah's Avatar
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    Jan 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,979
    Character
    Toki Tsuchimi
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Bright-Flower View Post
    For Shiva, I believe it was suggested in one of the lore books that her ice theming may have been borrowed from Halone worship, where she's one of the ice aspected gods. And that Ramuh worship likewise may have been based on Rhalgr, often depicted as an old man and with lightning element.
    I cant speak for Ramuh, though the Sylphs are lightning aspected creatures, so there is that. But as for Shiva, her ice aspect is a direct reference to Ysayle's past. It's one of the key hints about what the primals were at the time, besides the summoning itself. Everything about Shiva is a reference to something significant to Ysayle, the new Blue Magic skill acquired by Shiva even makes reference to this.
    (0)
    I like helping people with their Job ideas, it's fun to help them visuallize and create the job they'd like to play most. Plus I make my own too, I'll post them eventually.

  3. #13
    Player
    Bright-Flower's Avatar
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    Jul 2018
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    1,118
    Character
    Karen Bright-flower
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Eloah View Post
    I cant speak for Ramuh, though the Sylphs are lightning aspected creatures, so there is that. But as for Shiva, her ice aspect is a direct reference to Ysayle's past. It's one of the key hints about what the primals were at the time, besides the summoning itself. Everything about Shiva is a reference to something significant to Ysayle, the new Blue Magic skill acquired by Shiva even makes reference to this.
    This was where I heard of the Halone link though it could be incomplete information or a false assumption.

    https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Shiva
    (0)

  4. #14
    Player
    ObsidianFire's Avatar
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    Oct 2017
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    797
    Character
    Kharagal Mierqid
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 70
    That information is pulled directly from Lore Book 1's entry on Shiva. It's in-universe speculation that Shiva's myths were probably influenced by Halone's myths during the thousand years after Shiva's death.
    (1)

  5. #15
    Player
    Eloah's Avatar
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    Jan 2015
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    Gridania
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    1,979
    Character
    Toki Tsuchimi
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Bright-Flower View Post
    This was where I heard of the Halone link though it could be incomplete information or a false assumption.

    https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Shiva
    Quote Originally Posted by ObsidianFire View Post
    That information is pulled directly from Lore Book 1's entry on Shiva. It's in-universe speculation that Shiva's myths were probably influenced by Halone's myths during the thousand years after Shiva's death.
    That's not inaccurate, but in this instance it's referring to Shiva the Saint not Shiva the Primal. It's not to say that neither Halone nor Saint Shiva weren't part of the equation, far from it. It's just to say that Ysayle and her past are more responsible for Primal Shiva's aspects, specifically cause she's the one to give form to the ideals of Halone and Saint Shiva.
    (0)
    Last edited by Eloah; 01-16-2019 at 05:26 AM.
    I like helping people with their Job ideas, it's fun to help them visuallize and create the job they'd like to play most. Plus I make my own too, I'll post them eventually.

  6. #16
    Player
    Fenral's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    1,851
    Character
    W'fharl Tia
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 70
    In Japanese, Enkidu's title is 友神 (yuujin), which is a (truly reprehensible) pun on 友人 (yuujin), meaning friend. There's a list of _神 titles for all of them, actually. I think they showed it off at one of the anniversary broadcasts.
    (1)
    あっきれた。

  7. #17
    Player
    Lusavari's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    650
    Character
    Vesperlyn Hayle
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 70
    Starting with Ravana. they all have a Tertiary element. And some of them have elements that are not standard.

    Tsukuyomi is Light AND Dark. Both related to the phase of the moon she is in.

    Ravana's 3rd is Ice. The morphos cast ice spells.

    Bismark's is Thunder.

    Sephirot's Primary's are Earth and Wind. Water is his tertiary.
    Sophia's Tertiary is Ice.

    Lakashmi (who I spent a TON of time trying to figure out) is Fire, Light, and Water. It takes the extreme version to figure out her aspects.

    Arguably, even the main 6 have low degrees of a 2nd element.
    (0)

  8. #18
    Player
    Eloah's Avatar
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    Gridania
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    Character
    Toki Tsuchimi
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Lusavari View Post
    Starting with Ravana. they all have a Tertiary element. And some of them have elements that are not standard.

    Tsukuyomi is Light AND Dark. Both related to the phase of the moon she is in.

    Ravana's 3rd is Ice. The morphos cast ice spells.

    Bismark's is Thunder.

    Sephirot's Primary's are Earth and Wind. Water is his tertiary.
    Sophia's Tertiary is Ice.

    Lakashmi (who I spent a TON of time trying to figure out) is Fire, Light, and Water. It takes the extreme version to figure out her aspects.

    Arguably, even the main 6 have low degrees of a 2nd element.
    How does Sophia have Ice as a tertiary element? Not saying it's wrong, just nothing in her fight seems to point to Ice.

    As for Sephirot swap Wind and Water and you're good. And I'm not saying that just to say it, his attributes, theme, and lore all focus on earth and water. I mean he's a frickin tree. But wind could be a tertiary.

    Doesn't Zurvan have one?

    Curious how you got fire and water for Lakshmi. Not saying that's wrong, but her theme, lore, and attributes align more with fire and earth. Her being a goddess of wealth and prosperity through gemcraft.

    Also why not list Susano's water and lightning, and dark? (Dark is not evil)

    I have a more detailed explaination on this thread from a while back.
    older thread
    (0)
    Last edited by Eloah; 01-17-2019 at 02:26 AM.
    I like helping people with their Job ideas, it's fun to help them visuallize and create the job they'd like to play most. Plus I make my own too, I'll post them eventually.

  9. #19
    Player
    YianKutku's Avatar
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    Nov 2016
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
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    395
    Character
    P'liko Cuga
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Eloah View Post
    How does Sophia have Ice as a tertiary element? Not saying it's wrong, just nothing in her fight seems to point to Ice.
    At least on Sophia Normal (I've never done EX), she drops an ice puddle right before the first platform tilt. It causes a fairly nasty Frostbite DoT.
    (0)

  10. #20
    Player
    Mholito's Avatar
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    Aug 2014
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    1,237
    Character
    Mholi'to Lihzeh
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by YianKutku View Post
    At least on Sophia Normal (I've never done EX), she drops an ice puddle right before the first platform tilt. It causes a fairly nasty Frostbite DoT.
    The ice puddle is from the lancer add.
    (0)

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