An Idea for Delimiting Blue Mage

[AscendantManes]

This is an excerpt from in-game chat about Blue Mage:

[18:10](Mara Ileres) I'm still not sure if I'm getting Blue Mage.
[18:11](Xyrakheryu Zaijhygral) I'll try it out.
[18:11](Mara Ileres) I really did want a magical tank...
[18:12](Mara Ileres) I've always enjoyed unconventional ways of using magic.
[18:12](Xyrakheryu Zaijhygral) Yeah, you fought me on that so much.
[18:12](Mara Ileres) I hope they eventually make it "un"limited.
[18:13](Mara Ileres) I think they already have ideas on how to do that, but I don't know if they'll go through with those
[18:13](Mara Ileres) I honestly think they should.
[18:14](Xyrakheryu Zaijhygral) It'll take a lot of rework, but they certainly could.
[18:14](Mara Ileres) Not even a rework.
[18:15](Mara Ileres) Just, "These skills count towards a role. If you have all of them enabled, you qualify for queuing up as that role."
[18:15](Xyrakheryu Zaijhygral) Ohh, that would work.
[18:18](Mara Ileres) Hold on, I think I'll post that on the forums.
[18:19](Xyrakheryu Zaijhygral) Mmm, go for it!

So to clarify a bit, here's why I came up with this:

1. It appears certain blue magic spells are level-locked, which mimics level-up in regular jobs.
2. Whenever you go in as an ordinary class, you come in with a clearly-defined role, with a toolkit designed for said role.
3. I understand other Blue Mages might still want to have a varied skillset that doesn't cleanly place them in one role or the other. This system would not punish them, but rather give those who do want to have a cleanly-defined role in an instance the opportunity to do so.
4. Blue Mage is already a novelty job. By implementing a role qualification system, Blue Mages can begin their first steps towards enjoying the main content.

I would love to have an official word about this. I really did want a magical tank.

[Sylvain]

There's a few issue with this

One of BLU selling point is learning skill and tailoring your skill set. Altough it is currently capped at lv 50, it will be raised over the course of the next expansion. Each subsequent level increase will come with it's share of new skills.

Let say by the time 6.0 comes BLU caught up and can be lv 90 when 6.0 hit live.
You proposed that in order to play a certain role you must have a very specific set of skills. In a cooperative game where 2% rdps is frown upon, we can very safely assume that in order to reach a proper role balance in every regard (dps, utility etc), the skill selection will be extremely strick with maybe a few flavor of useless skills (such as the weak one no one picked in the role action).

The BLU comes out at 50 with 50skills, (49 to learn). This is way over what any job can learn. Unlike regular job, it is very unlikely that BLU skills will be removed / replaced / fused because it would defeat the purpose of what BLU currently is.
Therefor, let say that we get 1 skill per level, we will have 90 skill at lv 90.

In order to play in duty finder, dps, heal or tank, you would be forced to pick a very specific set of 24 skills out of 60+ skills (I assume we'll have more than 60 skills by the time it reaches lv 80)
I may be the only one here, but this doesn't sound like BLU.

So let's worsen the whole thing a bit, let say that they increase the level of BLU very quickly, something like, 5.1-lv70, 5.2-lv80
But in order to keep the job relevant they add something like 3-5 new skills every patch.
Well, you obviously couldn't use those in your raid environnement since your job has been balanced around that very specific set of 24 skills.

Things could be done such as making skill with the same effect but simply different element being interchangeable.

But then the question arises, why can the BLU mage be allowed to literally glamour his skills and have access to various different spell skin when every other job are stuck with the animation they have?

Due to the way they designed BLU, it is extremely unlikely it will take part in main content.

I really wanted a magical tank too, but it won't be BLU.
On the other hand, what could be fun at some point is instance designed toward a team of blue mage

[AscendantManes]

I understand what you mean, and honestly, yeah, I also thought about that.

The main reason I had this idea is because, well, BLU can only choose 24 skills, which just so happen to be the number of skills that a regular job has. Now, this is where it kind of crashes down: Once you hit level 50, that's it. You will be ineligible for most, if not all, of the endgame, which has had more made for it. You will be able to join raids, but only at level 50, and only if you find seven pals to play with. And while limited jobs can do regular stuff within limitations, it would have to be something that everyone consents to.

Now, have the specific set of skills, and now you are eligible for queuing up alongside pick-up groups through the Duty Finder. They have no excuse to kick you out because you selected your dungeon skills already, which would ideally be the best suitable skills. And if you want to mix-and-match, well that would still be an option---just find seven pals, just like the way it's set up now.

What I'm trying to say is by setting up a "Duty Finder qualification system", you would have the option to cut out a portion of the party search process. But that's all it is, really, an option. Which is something Blue Mage is built around to, when it comes down to it.

[Sylvain]

Well let's not forget it just came out.

They could very well, at some point, allow BLU to join leveling roulette and dungeon finder provided you have a few select skill.
But this would only apply to ARR (and eventually HW and SB) stuff.

Like, I wouldn't be surprised that at some point we'll be able to queue for dungeon/trial to get our skills.

What I'm trying to say is by setting up a "Duty Finder qualification system", you would have the option to cut out a portion of the party search process. But that's all it is, really, an option. Which is something Blue Mage is built around to, when it comes down to it.

That could be added eventually, on the other hand, it's safer to restrict first then allow than the opposite.

[Moogly]

These skills count towards a role. If you have all of them enabled, you qualify for queuing up as that role.

That's exactly why YoshiP was so reluctant at implementing the class in the first place, so I believe it won't happen like this.
Stop trying to predict the future or imagine new systems and just enjoy what you have now.
You might just end up getting all salty by yourself if what you expected and wanted isn't what YoshiP will deliver... and it most probably won't.

[Dmhlucky]

I had posted something similar in another thread, but instead of making it able to fill any role, keep it as DPS, but have a level 50 quest that "unlocks" the job, allowing it entry into normal content.
But Impose a level on spells. Ie Water Cannon would be level 1, 1k needles would be lv 50. So in a DF Sastasha, there won't be 1k needle spam, and they would operate more like a normal DPS.

1k damage at level 50, is a lot more normal than at level 16, but i think to go with this, they would need to modify some of the spell costs. 1k needles should be higher than White wind (unlocked) locked can say the same since its minimal content.

This way we retain the DPS nature of the job, but they can heal in a pinch, like Rdm and Smn, and can tank in a pinch like Smn can with Titan.

A few spells may need to be tweaked, white wind for Example would need a makeover, as its potentially the most powerful heal in the game.

Once you Unlock the job, you could toggle it, similar to how you uncap the DF.

I think overall that would be the more direct way for them to approach this.

And stop trying to predict? That's half of the fun of it.

[Reneo]

Well let's not forget it just came out.

They could very well, at some point, allow BLU to join leveling roulette and dungeon finder provided you have a few select skill.
But this would only apply to ARR (and eventually HW and SB) stuff.

Like, I wouldn't be surprised that at some point we'll be able to queue for dungeon/trial to get our skills.



That could be added eventually, on the other hand, it's safer to restrict first then allow than the opposite.

I really hope this is the case or at least. But at the same time, they have been adamant about keeping BLU the way it is for a long time. If people have any concerns, they should really voice it out to show if they are pleased or displeased with the limited job system.

[Jonnycbad]

SE has said they have 120 Blue Magic spells developed. We have 50 now. We can presume the remaining 70 will come through the next 20 levels 51-70. Now imagine being level 80 BLU if de-limited you have to pick 24 for your role. You >KNOW< the community will define a set optimal list that if you deviate from will be considered trash, right?

[Dmhlucky]

Of course, it will always be Conform or you are trash.
There are only 49 spells and im sure its already the case. The only reason it worked in 11 is because of the variety of everything that was available. There we some that were always set, but based on the situation it changed, Situations that simply aren't in 14. Again, outside of the Blu exclusive content.

[Raikai]

SE has said they have 120 Blue Magic spells developed. We have 50 now. We can presume the remaining 70 will come through the next 20 levels 51-70. Now imagine being level 80 BLU if de-limited you have to pick 24 for your role. You >KNOW< the community will define a set optimal list that if you deviate from will be considered trash, right?

But that's just the nature of the beast.

In any mmorpg setting with a huge number of options, there will always be the optimal setup. This is exactly what happens in WoW: back then you had a ton of talent options to choose, yet there were cookie cutter formula that you had to opt in if you wanted to join certain parties. Nowadays they dumbed down the system, and while still offers options with certain levels of equality, you STILL got the to-go setup to pick up.

It's impossible to achieve perfect balance without homogenizing everything, so in the OP's BLU proposition, I'd say: go for it.

Have your set of skills tailored to the group content, and the rest of the 100+ spells tailored for everything else like Masked Carnivale, solo dungeon challenges, etc.