Quote Originally Posted by Satarn View Post
While we could definitely use some other way to spend mp, we don't exactly spam DA constantly, but rather try to conserve mp for raid buffs and leave a margin in case of needing to TBN for emergencies. Weaving also isn't as bad as long as you don't try to jam DA at the end of a gcd and not nearly as clunky as "oh I have too much sks on gear, I guess now my entire rotation doesn't line up". Changes to Plunge and DM actually helped with that.
Having to press Dark Arts almost every other GCD or every third GCD does constitute spamming, especially compared to virtually every other job which have no such mechanic. Dark Arts used to be interesting, however now it's simply "press this button to do 140 more potency." Curve and Spit being the only exception. Actually, it's exactly as clunky because you only have one open GCD window to easily fit in a double weave without clipping. Meanwhile, WAR can do Fell Cleave/Upheaval/Onslaught/Fell Cleave without skipping a beat. It's a needless punishment on DRK—one rectified if they remove DAs from Syphon Strike.

Quote Originally Posted by Satarn View Post
Warriors have zero ways to help their co-tank and paladins have pitiful snap aggro. Balancing dps based on difficulty is a dangerous path to thread in this game. By that logic either PLD should be nerfed to the ground or DRK and WAR brought to the brain-dead level of PLDs rotation and we already know which is more likely to happen due to a revamp caused by the exact same argument. I don't have any more tank jobs to jump on if they decide to merge DA and BW into another Requiscat.
And?

Warrior deals substantially higher damage, has party utility, which is infinitely more useful, is the only tank not punished in any way for aggro generation, has the most flexible tank stance and the best self-healing. It more than makes up for not having a single target shield by being better at practically everything else. And yes, DRK does have great snap aggro generation. Unfortunately, it's often rendered meaningless because aggro as a whole has become a joke nowadays. Therein lies the issues for DRK. The few things it's good at have very little impact. I won't deny TBN is a nice shield, however you simply aren't trading out WAR and PLDs kits just for TBN. Which is why DRK has warmed the bench since 4.0.

As for rotation. Warrior was already brought down to brain dead levels. Your entire burst phase revolves around spamming Fell Cleave. It's more simplistic to optimize WAR than PLD. Which brings us back to the exact issue I mentioned previously: DRK works twice as hard yet sees little in the way of results.

Quote Originally Posted by Satarn View Post
Tbh Sole Survivor heals about the same amount as Equilibrium and while harder to use for that(and should be mainly used for mp anyways) it at least doesn't require going back into tank stance for 10 seconds. TBN is also a great tool to deal with "laggy" heals and screw-ups, which is the only reason to ever use Equilibrium or Clemency anyways.
WAR has Unchained. It doesn't care about going into Defiance for ten seconds. Equilibrium is full minute faster and isn't depended on for damage. You mention it yourself. Equilibrium and Clemency are generally used as recovery tools. No DRK ever will hold Sole Survivor for a panic scenario unless it happens to be coming off CD as things begin going array. Basically, it's not reliable for such a purpose.

Quote Originally Posted by Satarn View Post
It's not only magic heavy fights really. Between reduced cd on SW, LD and the versatility of TBN, DRK has a very strong personal(and "off-tank") mitigation in physical fights as well.
Yes, except it isn't better than anything WAR or PLD offer. I won't deny TBN is nice but it simply cannot compensate for the sheer versatility WAR/PLD offer. There's a reason DRK lags behind both its counterparts by a 4:1 margin. Even in Weapon's Refrain—a fight tailor made for DRK's strengths—sees it with only a third the clear rates as PLD/WAR. Party mitigation is far more useful than single target due to the predictability of tank busters. This makes Shake It Off, Divine Veil and Passgae better.

Quote Originally Posted by Satarn View Post
Can't disagree with that. I really hope the 5.0 changes will bring us closer to HW DRK, while taking it's faults into account(for example I'd love to get procs back, but parry really isn't a good thing to base them on).
My main point is, 4.3 changes addressed a lot of issues DRK had, so while we could've used a bit more it's not like SE left us completely hanging like MCH and WHM. DRK got, certainly not the best, but legitimately better. MCH and WHM actually got worse(in comparison to BRD/AST at least).
The whole reason DRK gets lumped with WHM and MCH is due to their respective counterparts. DRK may be in a better place than MCH/WHM, however it remains in a bad spot. I suppose, if you wanted to get technical. You could put it with SAM, which is decidedly the worst melee but still decent. Does it really matter though when all four jobs need some serious attention come 5.0? Even DRK needs less, it needs love because it's dying on the vine right now.