SkillSpeed on the Machinist Raid Weapon is a big joke.

[Kabooa]

I myself won't be able to do that for a while since I have to take care of tank first.. But will probably do that later when I'm able to start running on MCH again.

Keep in mind that for you and me, it won't make a difference. Those two are the 99ther's to who these minute differences are a huge factor I mentioned. Not specifically, but that group. They are to Machinist what you are to Warrior, but taken up a few more notches :P

[whiskeybravo]

I only play it because it's in the role my static needs, so while I'll defer to your expertise, I won't agree with the doom and gloom. I've had enough of that with the tank accessories discussion.

I think if skill speed can get down in that range it'll be fine. I did slightly prefer 700ish speed build to the 500ish I ran for a while. But if it was a situation where you have to carry 1000+ speed until you can achieve BiS it would be pretty sad. I did have a set with 900+ at one point and it was terrible for trying to stick to the standard rotation.

[Matthew_Fox]

I only play it because it's in the role my static needs, so while I'll defer to your expertise, I won't agree with the doom and gloom. I've had enough of that with the tank accessories discussion.

Then why do you comment if you don't really take it serious. You're disagreeing with proven math and something I learned over a whole year of EXP but don't even care enough to explain why. OOF.

[Kabooa]

Then why do you comment if you don't really take it serious. You're disagreeing with proven math and something I learned over a whole year of EXP but don't even care enough to explain why. OOF.

The math provided states the Tome Weapon is within a .6% margin (I'm not certain if you mean better or weaker, though the tone implies that the raid weapon is in favor here). That doesn't sound far off from most other tome-to-raid weapons, and probably about right from Raid-to-Ultimate.

My opinion is that this is making a mountain out of a molehill. With what you provided, I went and tested myself, as you are the machinist with greater expertise, and, as should be expected, you and the other provided not only correct information but information I can use to be better.

That's why I deferred. You are right; That Skillspeed isn't a harmless stat as I previously thought (A judgement colored from my time as Black Mage where speed is awesome). But I disagree with your sentiment that this is an insult, that somehow this screws over Machinist more in the end. I disagree here primarily because if you didn't have the skillspeed on the weapon, it'd probably be elsewhere that you wouldn't be able to avoid it, or would do so at some detriment to other stats, and my view on that is it your stats end up the same in the end, it doesn't really matter which piece had what to start with. That's a whole argument I had with Tank Accessories, and I'd rather not go through that song and dance again.

[Duskane]

There is always relic to back on
they will be better then this tiers weapon anyway by the end
even more so if they let you customize stats + 5 slots
(but MCH has Crit + DH already so not much need to customize)

[Matthew_Fox]

The math provided states the Tome Weapon is within a .6% margin (I'm not certain if you mean better or weaker, though the tone implies that the raid weapon is in favor here). That doesn't sound far off from most other tome-to-raid weapons, and probably about right from Raid-to-Ultimate.

That is wrong again. Raid-to-Ultimate is correct since it's only an increase in Materia. Again you're just assuming.
Also commenting on the

my view on that is it your stats end up the same in the end, it doesn't really matter which piece had what to start with

, again wrong. Last two tiers we ended with 2.47 and 2.48 BiS GCD speed. This tier it's unavoidable due to it being on the Weapon and not interchangeable gear.

There is always relic to back on
they will be better then this tiers weapon anyway by the end
even more so if they let you customize stats + 5 slots
(but MCH has Crit + DH already so not much need to customize)

Just waiting for Relic... So that's how it's supposed to be? Grind weapon > Raid Weapon. Okay.

[Duskane]

Just waiting for Relic... So that's how it's supposed to be? Grind weapon > Raid Weapon. Okay.

yep enjoy skill speed until then

[Matthew_Fox]

yep enjoy skill speed until then

Unlike you, some people raid in this game, clear all content and don't wanna "wait" until the next patch to have a decent weapon. But considering you only cleared O2S & O6S you wouldn't understand that.

[Kabooa]

That is wrong again. Raid-to-Ultimate is correct since it's only an increase in Materia. Again you're just assuming.
Also commenting on the , again wrong. Last two tiers we ended with 2.47 and 2.48 BiS GCD speed. This tier it's unavoidable due to it being on the Weapon and not interchangeable gear.

Black Mage weapon goes from 146-> 147. About a .7% gain on weapon damage.
The intelligence difference is 4, which at i390 will be something like .125% more intelligence.
Basically all the substats on Black Mage are around the same weight though crit slightly pulls ahead at end tier levels, so the substat shift doesn't make a huge difference.

Using a basic comaprison of 147 x 1.00125 /146 x 1.0 and the result is 1.008. Or about a .8% increase in damage on average, though Criticals swing higher and lower, so your best runs look better but your worst runs look worse.

As for the second point, I already conceded. You wanted reasoning, and I gave it. In short, you convinced me the weapon is objectively statted bad, and falls into the camp of monk and healers this tier.

[Matthew_Fox]

bumping since there has been no hotfix for this mistake yet.