Character Creation Has A Race Problem

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I'm sure the OP would love to spend her time chatting about hairstyle and face ideas instead of racism for 20 more pages.

Great! Next time, don't open such a discussion while insinuating lack of customization is due to a "racial issue." The well has long been tainted, and the OP has no one else except themselves to blame. Notice how every other thread asking for better customization receives precisely zero backlash regarding racism. There's a reason. They don't mention it in their opening post nor anywhere in the discussion thereafter.

It's pretty simple. If you don't want people talking about "stupid tumblr buzzwords" don't bring up stupid tumblr idiocy. What a novel concept!

In fact, a perfect comparison would be creating a thread citing how toxic and elitist raiders are only to subsequently claim you wanted to have a discussion about how to improve the raid community. People aren't going to care because the initial post was aggressive much in the same way the OP's post and follow up responses carried a race baiting and condescending undertone.

[Magic-Mal]

Great! Next time, don't open such a discussion while insinuating lack of customization is due to a "racial issue." The well has long been tainted, and the OP has no one else except themselves to blame. Notice how every other thread asking for better customization receives precisely zero backlash regarding racism. There's a reason. They don't mention it in their opening post nor anywhere in the discussion thereafter.

It's pretty simple. If you don't want people talking about "stupid tumblr buzzwords" don't bring up stupid tumblr idiocy. What a novel concept!

In fact, a perfect comparison would be creating a thread citing how toxic and elitist raiders are only to subsequently claim you wanted to have a discussion about how to improve the raid community. People aren't going to care because the initial post was aggressive much in the same way the OP's post and follow up responses carried a race baiting and condescending undertone.

I just re-read OPs post and whatever was said that had anything to do with race or racism was extremely light and the post was not aggressive. It all started with Valkyrie's post. It's not OP's fault you got your panties in a bunch over what she said. If anything with your reaction, you could qualify more as "Tumblr-worthy" for continuing it instead of dropping it. Letting go.

Anyways, I'm not going to respond anymore if you're going to keep talking about OP's attitude instead of her request.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I just re-read OPs post and whatever was said that had anything to do with race or racism was extremely light and the post was not aggressive. It all started with Valkyrie's post. It's not OP's fault you got your panties in a bunch over what she said. If anything with your reaction, you could qualify more as "Tumblr-worthy" for continuing it instead of dropping it. Letting go.

Anyways, I'm not going to respond anymore if you're going to keep talking about OP's attitude instead of her request.

Extremely light yet the OP made no less than two direct insinuations of racism, accusing SE of, "catering towards white people." She proceeds with this aggressive undertone and rudely engages everyone instead of attempting to sheer the conversation towards customization or acknowledging they may have been overzealous. People, myself included, are simply responding to how the OP has engaged us. You don't get to abruptly demand people talk about what you purported want after being disingenuous. If the OP showed some humility, perhaps the conversation would have changed long ago. She didn't. And more people chose to comment on the subject which the topic shifted towards. This is why your presentation in any debate is important. Don't blame everyone else because the OP acted defensively and spurred on a racial discussion only to balk when people rightfully called her out.

No one cares about the OP's request any longer. Her attitude has dominated the thread, and that is of her own making. Next time, if you want to discuss the game's lack of customization instead of claiming FFXIV has a racial issue say it has poor customization options.

[Skivvy]

OP isn't the only person who has been posting, and plenty of the responses have been normal. Instead of continuing that conversation, people are instead opting to harp on "OMG, OP'S APPROACH. IF ONLY THEY DIDN'T PULL THE RACE CARD". Lowest hanging fruit are always easiest to attack I suppose. There has been plenty of time and opportunities to move the conversation back to customization / adding more ethnic options, but instead it just circles back to "oh this is tumblr crap", "OP shouldn't have gone racial" responses. How many pages of those replies are needed?

[Joven]

OP isn't the only person who has been posting, and plenty of the responses have been normal. Instead of continuing that conversation, people are instead opting to harp on "OMG, OP'S APPROACH. IF ONLY THEY DIDN'T PULL THE RACE CARD". Lowest hanging fruit are always easiest to attack I suppose. There has been plenty of time and opportunities to move the conversation back to customization / adding more ethnic options, but instead it just circles back to "oh this is tumblr crap", "OP shouldn't have gone racial" responses. How many pages of those replies are needed?

But constantly arguing about arbitrary issues is the only way for people to feel important. Let them have their fun.

[Magic-Mal]

OP isn't the only person who has been posting, and plenty of the responses have been normal. Instead of continuing that conversation, people are instead opting to harp on "OMG, OP'S APPROACH. IF ONLY THEY DIDN'T PULL THE RACE CARD". Lowest hanging fruit are always easiest to attack I suppose. There has been plenty of time and opportunities to move the conversation back to customization / adding more ethnic options, but instead it just circles back to "oh this is tumblr crap", "OP shouldn't have gone racial" responses. How many pages of those replies are needed?

Thank you!!!!

snip.

Okay here's an example. So Bengal Tigers are going extinct. This foreigner guy comes up to your country with this brilliant idea to save all the tigers from dying but at the same time he shows disdain towards the people of the country. Do you, as a member of the country:
A. Set aside your differences, get over the guy's attitude, accept the suggestion, and save the tigers.

Or

B. Refuse to support the plan because you don't like what the guy says about the country and all the tigers die.

Pick. It's not about real life compared to the game, it's about the principle.

[MoroMurasaki]

snipp

I know this was aimed at Cass but I would ignore the attitude and save the endangered species. Ignoring how much more important biodiversity is irl than in a video game I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding going on here.

I don't think anyone has said "No, further character customization would be bad" the closest I could find to that was people expressing their concerns that further character customization could diminish the already waning amount of content we are seeing perpatch, a notion with which I agree.

Most posts criticizing the OP are saying that the way they went about suggesting this change was poor. There is not a "race problem" in character creation right now. This is not a racial issue. To make it one is silly.

Many of us have zero issue with the actual proposed changes but rather think the reasoning behind them is just shoddy.

I can only speak for myself but I think many others feel the same. More character customization is awesome but SE isn't being racially insensitive for not having it.

[Transient_Shadow]

Ok this post while I understand where its coming from I have to disagree with. So I'm going to share something rather personal.

This is Arandas 1.0 I made him when I first joined FFXIV. I was in a very dark place in my life at the time and he represented my hope for joy and beauty. I chose dark skin mainly because it emanates the warmth and beauty of the sun. I normally even had golden eyeliner to match his eyes but in this pick I was doing some makeup for a guild.

That being said. Is my wonderful original incarnation of Arandas a perfect reflection of black people? No. But he was the perfect expression of my hopes, loves, and desires in a very hard time of my life.

Characters will never be perfect imitations of real life. But they don't need to be.

[Ghastly]

If you want an idea to be properly discussed, deliver it in a well-thoughtout manner. Poor delivery results in poorer discussion.

And you are to judge?
Is it that you don't understand what's being asked?
Or are you intentionally playing "dumb" to avoid the subject itself?
Or is the "poor delivery" that you don't like the tone so you're proving what I was saying before about your entire intention in this subject is to deflect and never talk about the subject itself? Because so far that's all you've done in this thread which by forum guidelines is a violation.

[Magic-Mal]

I know this was aimed at Cass but I would ignore the attitude and save the endangered species. Ignoring how much more important biodiversity is irl than in a video game I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding going on here.

Just remember that it's not about whether or not it's RL or a game. It's about the principle. If you could ignore the guy's attitude there but can't ignore the OP's attitude here, that would mean you pick and choose only what you want to ignore based on how much you personally care for what they're suggesting. Which sounds hypocritical.(General you's)

the closest I could find to that was people expressing their concerns that further character customization could diminish the already waning amount of content we are seeing perpatch, a notion with which I agree.

If I remember correctly, that was only one person out if all 26-27 pages. And he/she only posted that today.

Most posts criticizing the OP are saying that the way they went about suggesting this change was poor. There is not a "race problem" in character creation right now. This is not a racial issue. To make it one is silly.

Many of us have zero issue with the actual proposed changes but rather think the reasoning behind them is just shoddy.

This is the OP's first post with the small piece of "racism" cut out. And it is small:

So, I've been tempted to use a Fantasia, and change from Miqo'te, so I started playing around with the character creation, and the lack of diversity is abysmal. I wanted to make a Hyur female, but I can't help but notice there isn't much wiggle room. There's only one cute braided mohawk style, and some dookie dreads. Where are the curly or even kinky hair styles? There are no flat twists, no cornrows, no box braids, no senegalese twists, no two strand twists, etc. I thought there was an afro option, but I didn't see that either. Under the nose options, there's are no truly wider options (I'm not saying the nose has to take up the entire face). There are no larger fuller lips. Skin tones run either cool or red, and there are absolutely no yellow undertones. Many of the little boxes on the skin color grid are virtually indistinguishable from the ones at least four spaces from them vertically, making them a waste. On brown skin tones, this makes the character appear ashy and in severe need of lotion. Skin tone alone is not diversity. Sure you can make your character Sudanese black, but if the nose and lips are slim and thin, is it really a black person? No.

Releasing multiple hairstyles is cute, but when are we going to get some new faces, noses, lips, and eyebrows that don't harken back to the late 90s and early 2000s? There's nothing wrong with a thicker brow. <I bring this up, because there are many black and brown people who play this game, yet the character creation only caters to one demographic for the most part, and that's white. Ironically, I don't even see Asian faces despite this being a Japanese game. So you mean to tell me that my black and brown friends are good enough to receive a subscription from, but not good enough to have the character creation cater to them as well?> I'm biracial (black mom, Russian dad) and while I'm not dark skinned I don't have thin lips and sharp facial features.

I already know some people are going to be in their feelings about this, and that's fine.

Seems pretty clear what she wants. She made it clear for sure what she was asking for throughout the post. And not in an aggressive way. People are making her out as some kind of villain but what's really so bad?

And then Valkyrie's post in response:

I wouldn't say it has a race problem, as all the games races are pretty well represented, and you can choose your skin color to be whatever you want.

racial characteristics from the real world shouldn't apply, as the game doesn't denote races by color. Stop looking for racial issues where they don't exist, it makes it harder to fight for them where they do actually exist.

The most liked post, and has nothing to do with her request. Instead it provokes race and latches on to that single piece of Nandina's post.

Everyone attached to that one little piece of her whole thread and made this 27 pages of nothing.